[talkSAFT]

The Championship is a very tough league, the football is more like what we used to see in England, more tough tackles and a bit more blood and thunder!!  The grounds are not as nice, thee atmosphere though is likely to be more intimidating and you will see potentially more away fans at the Hawthorns as you will sell less tickets to home fans, which makes the atmosphere different again.  The championship is also littered with clubs who have been in the prem and almost all of them think they should be back there.  No disrespect but there are clubs in the Championship that could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you, and that often means we teams will give you less respect than you might give Man City!!   You should also plan to pay over 40 pound a ticket when going to away games, there is no cap on ticket prices in the Championship, I think we are charging Villa fans 43 pounds for our upcoming game!!!  Clubs have to do this because ticket revenue is still the biggest income stream clubs have, for instance our ticket revenue is higher than 10 PL teams, we just don’t have the TV money to make ticket sales irrelevant like it is in the PL.  For reference our TV money totals about 2m per season, compared to the 100m in the PL.

Thanks for your interest, Charlie, and I'm not going to argue about who's a bigger Club than so-and-so, which I find pathetic, but you're virtually saying without debate that Wednesday are "bigger" than Albion. Do you base that on anything but crowd size? The only Club in the Championship "bigger" than Albion is Villa. (That's based on success). We're "bigger" than Leeds, Wolves, Weds, Forest, Sunderland, etc DESPITE having a smaller population and thus smaller Home attendance these days.

(Before our Area became populated by Immigrants with little interest in football, we attracted home attendances as big as any of those Clubs).

[drewks]

.....back to the "curtains after tonight" question....

Didn't see much of the game but from what I saw and heard, we were more than in the game until after their first goal - it was our misses that cost us.
I think that if you match a team like Chelsea for some time, concede, and also miss the best chances, it's going to be impossible to maintain spirit and quality for 90 mins.
So - it's another "zero points" which makes things progressively harder, but I'm not totally writing us off - not till the next 5 games are done. These are now absolutely vital.

[Foxman_WBA]

I don't think it is curtains necessarily. It doesn't look good but anything last night would have been a bonus. The main thing for us is to beat Huddersfield if we don't I would agree then we are definitely down. The next 5 after that all seem winnable. I think after Huddersfield though its will be telling.

[St Charles Owl]

The Championship is a very tough league, the football is more like what we used to see in England, more tough tackles and a bit more blood and thunder!!  The grounds are not as nice, thee atmosphere though is likely to be more intimidating and you will see potentially more away fans at the Hawthorns as you will sell less tickets to home fans, which makes the atmosphere different again.  The championship is also littered with clubs who have been in the prem and almost all of them think they should be back there.  No disrespect but there are clubs in the Championship that could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you, and that often means we teams will give you less respect than you might give Man City!!   You should also plan to pay over 40 pound a ticket when going to away games, there is no cap on ticket prices in the Championship, I think we are charging Villa fans 43 pounds for our upcoming game!!!  Clubs have to do this because ticket revenue is still the biggest income stream clubs have, for instance our ticket revenue is higher than 10 PL teams, we just don’t have the TV money to make ticket sales irrelevant like it is in the PL.  For reference our TV money totals about 2m per season, compared to the 100m in the PL.

Thanks for your interest, Charlie, and I'm not going to argue about who's a bigger Club than so-and-so, which I find pathetic, but you're virtually saying without debate that Wednesday are "bigger" than Albion. Do you base that on anything but crowd size? The only Club in the Championship "bigger" than Albion is Villa. (That's based on success). We're "bigger" than Leeds, Wolves, Weds, Forest, Sunderland, etc DESPITE having a smaller population and thus smaller Home attendance these days.

(Before our Area became populated by Immigrants with little interest in football, we attracted home attendances as big as any of those Clubs).

I wasn’t saying that at all!! There is always a debate about who is bigger than who and its something that is always spun depending on what stats are used. The part you highlighted from my post said teams that “could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you”, hence the debate that could be had depending on your point of view. You irrefutably say without debate that only Villa are bigger than you, I think a number of teams would definitely debate that with you!!!

I happen to think its sometimes an interesting debate as to which club is bigger than the next, what is childish is failing to accept an alternative view when facts can be presented. Of course being bigger proves nothing but that, the debate is not actually about size its about who has the better history but being better in the present day is actually what we all aspire to with other clubs, and you currently win that one over us!!!

[Arcane Astral Aeons]

now now
play nice

[Sir Megson]

There will need to be a massive change in playing staff if we go down. The players, although shown not to be good enough for the premier league, will think that they are too good for the championship. Not too sure many of them playing tonight will be playing for us next season.

Still hoping that we can pick up some valuable points before the end of March. But if we do go down it will be very difficult to bounce back straight away.

Well worth a read of the FFP rules in the Premier League/Championship. As a club over a three year period we could make losses of up to £80-90 million dating back over 3 seasons if we were to go down. As far as I know, I think we've always ran at a profit to ensure we have this advantage if we were to go down (looking likelier by the game!)

The parachute payments we'd receive after being in the PL for quite a while would also be substantial, so I think we could see Lai and co gambling on reinvesting on a huge scale on the squad. We'd have the advantage financially over many clubs from the get go and should be in a better position to challenge to get back up.

Let's be honest, Wolves have made the league look piss easy and they have 3-4 really good players and the rest are your average Championship type players. We just need to make sure the right players are brought in and the right ones sold for decent money.

Not sure your losses total is correct, in the Championship you can make a loss of 39m over a three year period.  You are correct that the failure parachute money you will get will put you significantly ahead in terms of revenue over any other team that is currently in the championship.  Our annual sales are in the region of 24m, and that includes the TV money, yours in your first year if you go down will be approx 60-70m more because of what the PL will give you.  As you can tell from my tone, I think that is grossly unfair but it is what it is.

Wolves have made the league look easy because they have spent nearly 60m quid and are taking a gamble that by doing so they will get out at the first attempt and so the 3 year losses won’t apply.  But also remember when they came down from the PL they went straight down again, as did Wigan and almost Villa last season.  Sunderland and Hull look like they might do the same this season and Boro are still not in the playoffs, even with the absurd parachute payments, so the money you will earn be given is no guarantee of promotion!!  The problem you will face is if you lose most of your best players, which is likely, then it is significantly more difficult to attract good players in the Championship, particularly from abroad, and you end up having to buy good english players who cost significantly more, or take a risk on slightly known foreign players.  That of course is assuming you can actually sell the players you don’t want to pay 100k per week or that are not likely to want to play in the championship.

The Championship is a very tough league, the football is more like what we used to see in England, more tough tackles and a bit more blood and thunder!!  The grounds are not as nice, thee atmosphere though is likely to be more intimidating and you will see potentially more away fans at the Hawthorns as you will sell less tickets to home fans, which makes the atmosphere different again.  The championship is also littered with clubs who have been in the prem and almost all of them think they should be back there.  No disrespect but there are clubs in the Championship that could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you, and that often means we teams will give you less respect than you might give Man City!!   You should also plan to pay over 40 pound a ticket when going to away games, there is no cap on ticket prices in the Championship, I think we are charging Villa fans 43 pounds for our upcoming game!!!  Clubs have to do this because ticket revenue is still the biggest income stream clubs have, for instance our ticket revenue is higher than 10 PL teams, we just don’t have the TV money to make ticket sales irrelevant like it is in the PL.  For reference our TV money totals about 2m per season, compared to the 100m in the PL.

So yes, you can spend your way out of the Championship and you can outspend other Championship teams to start with but if like others find it doesn’t go well then you will potentially blow that 39m losses in a couple of years and then you will become no different to Forest, SWFC, L**ds, SUFC, Derby, Cardiff, Fulham, Preston, Norwich, QPR, Bolton etc etc, clubs who dropped out and haven’t been able to get back for years!!!  We have been out of the PL for 18 years, Forest for 19 years, L**ds for 14 years, Ipswich 14 years, Derby 10 years etc.

I’m not saying you guys should fear the Championship, but its not going to be a cake walk for you like I saw being suggested on another thread.  I will say its a lot more competitive than the PL, and while the football might not be as good a quality it is often more exciting and the simple fact that you will win more games will bring the love for the game back for a lot of fans.  But getting back to the PL will become your obsession, both as fans and as a club!!

Definitely not expecting a cake walk but we'll definitely be in a better place financially than most clubs. The biggest challenge will be the rivalry for promotion from the other 2 clubs who drop with us.

Big news today with the sackings at board level, so we are already starting the restructuring in preparation imo. If we get the right people in I think we'll be in an even stronger position.

[BaggieSteve]

There will need to be a massive change in playing staff if we go down. The players, although shown not to be good enough for the premier league, will think that they are too good for the championship. Not too sure many of them playing tonight will be playing for us next season.

Still hoping that we can pick up some valuable points before the end of March. But if we do go down it will be very difficult to bounce back straight away.

Well worth a read of the FFP rules in the Premier League/Championship. As a club over a three year period we could make losses of up to £80-90 million dating back over 3 seasons if we were to go down. As far as I know, I think we've always ran at a profit to ensure we have this advantage if we were to go down (looking likelier by the game!)

The parachute payments we'd receive after being in the PL for quite a while would also be substantial, so I think we could see Lai and co gambling on reinvesting on a huge scale on the squad. We'd have the advantage financially over many clubs from the get go and should be in a better position to challenge to get back up.

Let's be honest, Wolves have made the league look piss easy and they have 3-4 really good players and the rest are your average Championship type players. We just need to make sure the right players are brought in and the right ones sold for decent money.

Not sure your losses total is correct, in the Championship you can make a loss of 39m over a three year period.  You are correct that the failure parachute money you will get will put you significantly ahead in terms of revenue over any other team that is currently in the championship.  Our annual sales are in the region of 24m, and that includes the TV money, yours in your first year if you go down will be approx 60-70m more because of what the PL will give you.  As you can tell from my tone, I think that is grossly unfair but it is what it is.

Wolves have made the league look easy because they have spent nearly 60m quid and are taking a gamble that by doing so they will get out at the first attempt and so the 3 year losses won’t apply.  But also remember when they came down from the PL they went straight down again, as did Wigan and almost Villa last season.  Sunderland and Hull look like they might do the same this season and Boro are still not in the playoffs, even with the absurd parachute payments, so the money you will earn be given is no guarantee of promotion!!  The problem you will face is if you lose most of your best players, which is likely, then it is significantly more difficult to attract good players in the Championship, particularly from abroad, and you end up having to buy good english players who cost significantly more, or take a risk on slightly known foreign players.  That of course is assuming you can actually sell the players you don’t want to pay 100k per week or that are not likely to want to play in the championship.

The Championship is a very tough league, the football is more like what we used to see in England, more tough tackles and a bit more blood and thunder!!  The grounds are not as nice, thee atmosphere though is likely to be more intimidating and you will see potentially more away fans at the Hawthorns as you will sell less tickets to home fans, which makes the atmosphere different again.  The championship is also littered with clubs who have been in the prem and almost all of them think they should be back there.  No disrespect but there are clubs in the Championship that could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you, and that often means we teams will give you less respect than you might give Man City!!   You should also plan to pay over 40 pound a ticket when going to away games, there is no cap on ticket prices in the Championship, I think we are charging Villa fans 43 pounds for our upcoming game!!!  Clubs have to do this because ticket revenue is still the biggest income stream clubs have, for instance our ticket revenue is higher than 10 PL teams, we just don’t have the TV money to make ticket sales irrelevant like it is in the PL.  For reference our TV money totals about 2m per season, compared to the 100m in the PL.

So yes, you can spend your way out of the Championship and you can outspend other Championship teams to start with but if like others find it doesn’t go well then you will potentially blow that 39m losses in a couple of years and then you will become no different to Forest, SWFC, L**ds, SUFC, Derby, Cardiff, Fulham, Preston, Norwich, QPR, Bolton etc etc, clubs who dropped out and haven’t been able to get back for years!!!  We have been out of the PL for 18 years, Forest for 19 years, L**ds for 14 years, Ipswich 14 years, Derby 10 years etc.

I’m not saying you guys should fear the Championship, but its not going to be a cake walk for you like I saw being suggested on another thread.  I will say its a lot more competitive than the PL, and while the football might not be as good a quality it is often more exciting and the simple fact that you will win more games will bring the love for the game back for a lot of fans.  But getting back to the PL will become your obsession, both as fans and as a club!!

St Charles, thanks for posting this, I think it's a really honest and astute assessment of the Championship. I've no idea who's bigger than who, and in all honesty it doesn't matter - we could argue this until the cows come home or we win a game (whichever comes sooner) and we wouldn't even agree on the criteria, let alone the pecking order. I think the reality is that, assuming we are relegated, it will be tough for us since we have a number of players who are saleable and they'll leave, others who we'd like to sell but who may not be in demand and some of the older guard (Brunt, Foster, Morrison et al) who I think we'll need as continuity. I do think it's an opportunity to start playing some of our talented younger players but this, I suspect, may not get us promotion first season back, possibly the second. The usual argument is that you need one team to get out of the Championship and then another to survive in the Premier League - I think this will be true for Villa, if they are promoted, as its full of guys who've failed there before (I'd give Wolves a better chance of survival). So, I'd honestly not like to see us pack the squad with seasoned pros but get a balance between experience and youth, Abu with the emphasis on the latter. The other question is whether Pardew is the man for that; as others have said, I'd like to see us appoint someone like Potter - we've given the old farts a go, let's go for some fresh ideas.

[Blue Baggie]

There will need to be a massive change in playing staff if we go down. The players, although shown not to be good enough for the premier league, will think that they are too good for the championship. Not too sure many of them playing tonight will be playing for us next season.

Still hoping that we can pick up some valuable points before the end of March. But if we do go down it will be very difficult to bounce back straight away.

Well worth a read of the FFP rules in the Premier League/Championship. As a club over a three year period we could make losses of up to £80-90 million dating back over 3 seasons if we were to go down. As far as I know, I think we've always ran at a profit to ensure we have this advantage if we were to go down (looking likelier by the game!)

The parachute payments we'd receive after being in the PL for quite a while would also be substantial, so I think we could see Lai and co gambling on reinvesting on a huge scale on the squad. We'd have the advantage financially over many clubs from the get go and should be in a better position to challenge to get back up.

Let's be honest, Wolves have made the league look piss easy and they have 3-4 really good players and the rest are your average Championship type players. We just need to make sure the right players are brought in and the right ones sold for decent money.

Not sure your losses total is correct, in the Championship you can make a loss of 39m over a three year period.  You are correct that the failure parachute money you will get will put you significantly ahead in terms of revenue over any other team that is currently in the championship.  Our annual sales are in the region of 24m, and that includes the TV money, yours in your first year if you go down will be approx 60-70m more because of what the PL will give you.  As you can tell from my tone, I think that is grossly unfair but it is what it is.

Wolves have made the league look easy because they have spent nearly 60m quid and are taking a gamble that by doing so they will get out at the first attempt and so the 3 year losses won’t apply.  But also remember when they came down from the PL they went straight down again, as did Wigan and almost Villa last season.  Sunderland and Hull look like they might do the same this season and Boro are still not in the playoffs, even with the absurd parachute payments, so the money you will earn be given is no guarantee of promotion!!  The problem you will face is if you lose most of your best players, which is likely, then it is significantly more difficult to attract good players in the Championship, particularly from abroad, and you end up having to buy good english players who cost significantly more, or take a risk on slightly known foreign players.  That of course is assuming you can actually sell the players you don’t want to pay 100k per week or that are not likely to want to play in the championship.

The Championship is a very tough league, the football is more like what we used to see in England, more tough tackles and a bit more blood and thunder!!  The grounds are not as nice, thee atmosphere though is likely to be more intimidating and you will see potentially more away fans at the Hawthorns as you will sell less tickets to home fans, which makes the atmosphere different again.  The championship is also littered with clubs who have been in the prem and almost all of them think they should be back there.  No disrespect but there are clubs in the Championship that could legitimately consider themselves bigger than you, and that often means we teams will give you less respect than you might give Man City!!   You should also plan to pay over 40 pound a ticket when going to away games, there is no cap on ticket prices in the Championship, I think we are charging Villa fans 43 pounds for our upcoming game!!!  Clubs have to do this because ticket revenue is still the biggest income stream clubs have, for instance our ticket revenue is higher than 10 PL teams, we just don’t have the TV money to make ticket sales irrelevant like it is in the PL.  For reference our TV money totals about 2m per season, compared to the 100m in the PL.

So yes, you can spend your way out of the Championship and you can outspend other Championship teams to start with but if like others find it doesn’t go well then you will potentially blow that 39m losses in a couple of years and then you will become no different to Forest, SWFC, L**ds, SUFC, Derby, Cardiff, Fulham, Preston, Norwich, QPR, Bolton etc etc, clubs who dropped out and haven’t been able to get back for years!!!  We have been out of the PL for 18 years, Forest for 19 years, L**ds for 14 years, Ipswich 14 years, Derby 10 years etc.

I’m not saying you guys should fear the Championship, but its not going to be a cake walk for you like I saw being suggested on another thread.  I will say its a lot more competitive than the PL, and while the football might not be as good a quality it is often more exciting and the simple fact that you will win more games will bring the love for the game back for a lot of fans.  But getting back to the PL will become your obsession, both as fans and as a club!!

St Charles, thanks for posting this, I think it's a really honest and astute assessment of the Championship. I've no idea who's bigger than who, and in all honesty it doesn't matter - we could argue this until the cows come home or we win a game (whichever comes sooner) and we wouldn't even agree on the criteria, let alone the pecking order. I think the reality is that, assuming we are relegated, it will be tough for us since we have a number of players who are saleable and they'll leave, others who we'd like to sell but who may not be in demand and some of the older guard (Brunt, Foster, Morrison et al) who I think we'll need as continuity. I do think it's an opportunity to start playing some of our talented younger players but this, I suspect, may not get us promotion first season back, possibly the second. The usual argument is that you need one team to get out of the Championship and then another to survive in the Premier League - I think this will be true for Villa, if they are promoted, as its full of guys who've failed there before (I'd give Wolves a better chance of survival). So, I'd honestly not like to see us pack the squad with seasoned pros but get a balance between experience and youth, Abu with the emphasis on the latter. The other question is whether Pardew is the man for that; as others have said, I'd like to see us appoint someone like Potter - we've given the old farts a go, let's go for some fresh ideas.

A very wise old "OWL" me thinks.
I would really like to see some of our youngsters given a chance - a run of 5-6 games, not just a cameo sub appearance for 10 minutes.
Certainly Field should already be a regular in the first team. I also think Roberts will do well at leeds - I would have liked to see him have a chance, but its to late now.. Manager wise - Pardew has  fors / against. I would like to see Megson and McInnes come in to replace him ASAP
M & M has a nice ring to it.

[drewks]

[ Manager wise - Pardew has  fors / against. I would like to see Megson and McInnes come in to replace him ASAP
M & M has a nice ring to it.

Have deleted most of the longest post in the forum's history . ....very interesting.
Re the above Manager question, I've just read somewhere that AP has the worst record in all European top leagues for the last few years?!
Must've had a cracking interview!!

Would hate to see Megson back tbh - a TP clone if ever I saw one.
How about a returning Tony Mowbray? Great football in the Championship, I seem to remember.......but also remember him dropping us like a hot potato........

[Blue Baggie]

[ Manager wise - Pardew has  fors / against. I would like to see Megson and McInnes come in to replace him ASAP
M & M has a nice ring to it.

Have deleted most of the longest post in the forum's history  . ....very interesting.
Re the above Manager question,  I've just read somewhere that AP has the worst record in all European top leagues for the last few years?!
Must've had a cracking interview!!

Would hate to see Megson back tbh - a TP clone if ever I saw one.
How about a returning Tony Mowbray? Great football in the Championship, I seem to remember.......but also remember him dropping us like a hot potato........

I would like to see McInnes, but think he would benefit from an older mgr along side him.
And he's WBA through & through