[HerefordBull]

Well spotted WorthinGer....silly me.  

[0762]

I honestly wish a lot more supporters/people would remove their apathy from the issue of effective enforcement to considerably reduce this kinda practise in Scotland. As said previously, I think this problem can be effectively tackled with the proper resource and commitment. There is an appropriate solution/antidote for the sectarian poison at Ibrox but it has to be administered by enforcers who are committed to changing things with the full cooperation of the relative football club, in this case Rangers FC. Also re fan enforcement SCO, I'd say this is more difficult than initially assumed. Certain decent Rangers fans who I knew in years gone by occasionally discussed this consistent problem eg sitting beside a very loud Northern Irishman with a clear sectarian problem, a nightmare scenario for 90 mins for someone who is interested in the footie but has no interest in this shit! Asked why not just report the guy to Police or stewards, the reply was a resounding no for fear of violence, intimidation or reprisal. Sympathy prevails in that situation but I'd say report it in a secretive manner. A modern day technique would be to video the offender using a decent mobile phone and that would be the starting point for an eventual all out ban from the stadium. When society has lost all patience re the practise of sectarianism and using a sport as a 'platform of hate' then the 'game is up' at some point. IMO we're gradually moving towards that point. It's not gonna happen overnight but it will come as the level of tolerance is eroded in our wider civilised society!

[TheWorthinGer]

Well spotted WorthinGer....silly me.  

Indeed - in your haste to damn the club you forgot the facts. 

Force of habit I'd say.

Did you see how Hibs , and their fans, cheated to have a Rangers player sent off?

Or was it Fyvie that did it?

[0762]

Genuine question that I don't know the answer to, is singing sectarian songs against the law in Scotland??  If it is then the police can make arrests, but if not is there actually anything they can do about this?

I am not sure what else a football club can do, and let's not make the solution just about Rangers, but if you use cctv to prosecute fans realistically how many of those arrests will see a court?  Sure a club can ban any fan found guilty but we shouldn't see wholesale bans on accusations.  To me the only way this will stop is if fan peer pressure is used to first of all not join in the songs but more importantly to shout down or ostracise the offenders but I think the only way this will happen is if the offending club is either fined, docked points or forced to play games behind closed doors or with stands shut.  Irrespective of which team is guilty of this, the fans are really the only ones who can eradicate it as they are ultimately the perpetrators as well.

Easy answer to most of the comments in your thread Saint Charles Owl - Where there's a will, there's a way to effectively deal with it! It's a hate crime, and our current laws state that very fact and the action that should be taken to deal with it - it's no different from racism!!
Also I notice our resident sectarian bigot has 'arrived on the scene again' and deflected away from the issue to making stupid remarks/insinuations re other football clubs and the way they practise! Juvenile generalised drivel as usual and I'm very surprised to see any poster giving this nut job any response whatsoever - don't be foolish and stick to a strict policy of isolation!!

[hibeejim21]

How can it having nothing to do with God when the sectarianism is religion based?




Because it wasn't really exclusively a "god" issue WG, both faiths prohibit this kind of behaviour after all in their teachings. Sectarianism in scotland stems from a historic problem with irish immigration,and it's never just been solely their religion that has been the focus.

Incidentally there have been several instances of fans being arrested and convicted in large crowds for singing sectarian songs.

[TheWorthinGer]

How can it having nothing to do with God when the sectarianism is religion based?




Because it wasn't really exclusively a "god" issue WG, both faiths prohibit this kind of behaviour after all in their teachings. Sectarianism in scotland stems from a historic problem with irish immigration,and it's never just been solely their religion that has been the focus.

Incidentally there have been several instances of fans being arrested and convicted in large crowds for singing sectarian songs.

That's total nonsense - otherwise we would have sectarianism between Scottish protestants and the descendants of Irish protestants and between Scottish Catholics and the descendants of Irish Catholics. And the immigration you speak of was well underway before the formation of Rangers FC.

Two sects that refer to each other as heretics.

I'm quite happy to debate the history of Scotland from the reformation onwards if you wish - but this isn't really the place for it.  I do feel, however,  that i should point out that sectarianism is a societal problem rooted in ancient superstitions.  Rangers didn't cause it.

[Fredstersafool]

Now this is a genuine question was there sectarian singing at Rangers games before or after Celtic FC were formed??,I'm no exactly a historian on this matter.

[TheWorthinGer]

Now this is a genuine question was there sectarian singing at Rangers games before or after Celtic FC were formed??,I'm no exactly a historian on this matter.

A better question, and more relevant, is was there sectarianism before association football?

And the answer is yes.

Football isn't the home or the cause of sectarianism - it might be the mechanism that some people use to express their extremist views, of whatever type.  But it doesn't shape those views.

Eradicate sectarianism in society as a whole and you automatically eradicate it in football as well.  You're kidding yourself if you think that the reverse is true.

[Fredstersafool]

I'm no saying it is i'm just asking were Rangers fans active in sectarian singing before Celtic came along??

It will never go away IMO.

[hibeejim21]

Now this is a genuine question was there sectarian singing at Rangers games before or after Celtic FC were formed??,I'm no exactly a historian on this matter.

Rangers were really not successful until celtic came along,then they gathered the tremendous anti-irish sentiment in scotland at that point behind them and became a much bigger club. That's just the way it went. In the early 20th century they called themselves a "scottish" club opposed to celtics "irish" and that catholics wouldnt play for them. Thats when sectarianism kicked off in earnest as we know it in scottish fitba.

That's why they aren't one of the "19" on the scottish cup whilst hibs,hearts and celtic all are. Even though they had 15 years more than celtic to do it.