[Lord Snooty]

Not saying the blame lies with the fans, Wakey. Just that they aren't totally blameless like they reckon they are. They have dissolved themselves of any blame whatsoever and that is wrong.

[Amelia Chaffinch]

Just some of the blame, Wakey

[ARTERRIER]

I really do not understand this 'fans have to take the blame' mantra, how are the fans to blame in anyway? Sorry, the blame lies solely with the police for totally cocking up and not controlling the crowd. The only things the fans are guilty off is entering after the gate was opened and entering into the wrong pen.

The police wrongly opened the gate, the police failed to disperse the crowd to the outer pens, cctv was being watched, why did the police allow so many people to enter that pen? The police tried to cover it up and its taken bloody 26 years for that prick Dukinfield to apologise. Seriously, there is no blame attached to the fans that day.

If someone could give a plausible explanation as to why the fans are supposed to share the blame, I'm interested to hear it, seriously I am. Is their presence at the game enough?

[Lord Snooty]

The fans Have to take some blame, not just Liverpool fans, but any football fan who ever went to a match back in the day and caused trouble. That includes Huddersfield Town fans, Leeds fans, Millwall fans, etc etc, but most of all the bloody Liverpool fans.
Why? Because due to their behaviour, fences had to be erected at football grounds.
Why do I say mostly the bloody Liverpool fans? Because they were the biggest set of arseholes in the country. They were the ones who's behaviour got all English clubs kicked out of Europe.

Luckily, there were no fences up at the front of the main stand at Valley Parade in 1985. Can you imagine how many dead bodies there would have been then?
Without fences there would've been no deaths at Hillsborough that day.

OK. So there were fences there. Yes, the police got a lot wrong on the day and were responsible for all that went wrong. The police are mostly responsible for it. But the fans aren't totally blameless, because of what had gone on in the past.

Does that make sense?

[St Charles Owl]

The fans Have to take some blame, not just Liverpool fans, but any football fan who ever went to a match back in the day and caused trouble. That includes Huddersfield Town fans, Leeds fans, Millwall fans, etc etc, but most of all the bloody Liverpool fans.
Why? Because due to their behaviour, fences had to be erected at football grounds.
Why do I say mostly the bloody Liverpool fans? Because they were the biggest set of arseholes in the country. They were the ones who's behaviour got all English clubs kicked out of Europe.

Luckily, there were no fences up at the front of the main stand at Valley Parade in 1985. Can you imagine how many dead bodies there would have been then?
Without fences there would've been no deaths at Hillsborough that day.

OK. So there were fences there. Yes, the police got a lot wrong on the day and were responsible for all that went wrong. The police are mostly responsible for it. But the fans aren't totally blameless, because of what had gone on in the past.

Does that make sense?

They also aren't totally blameless for what went on that day as well.  All the pushing and shoving to get into the ground is a small part of what caused the crush at Gate C, which in turn forced the cop on duty there to open the gate and ease the crush before someone died outside.  No one is saying it is all their fault by any means, but some of the responsibility was on them.  In my opinion at the end of the day SYP will rightly take the massive bulk of the blame for their failure to control the situation both outside and inside the ground, but a number of other parties were also partly to blame in much smaller ways for contributing to the events that day, and that includes the fans.

---

Just to add as well, the decision made by the FA and SYP not to simply delay the kick-off, something that they have little reservation doing these days such as our game at the weekend at Rotherham, would probably have saved every life. The fans were desperate to get into the ground for the kick-off, so were pushing and shoving to get to the turnstiles causing the crush outside. Any of us that went to games in the 80s have been in that situation many times outside multiple grounds, its what fans did, its why the police treated them like cattle because most of the time we acted like animals!!!!

[SHEP_HTAFC]

Bloody hell.......I haven't half stirred up some feelings over my grudges.
I know it's all been said before, but here's my tuppence worth.

SYP must take most of the blame for this tragedy. All police forces back in the 80's dealt with football crowds a lot, and all had procedures in place. To put an inexperienced controller in charge of such a massive game was a huge mistake. Especially at a ground he had hardly been to before.
The Liverpool supporters have to take some of the blame for this. Not one police officer or steward or reporter of first aid person crushed anyone to death that day. Only the supporters did that.
JFT96 was a cause worth fighting for, a cause that wanted no blame attached to the dead. The 96 are absolutely in no way responsible or to blame for their deaths.
But no one who is thinking clearly can say that about EVERY other Liverpool supporter that day.

[Lord Snooty]

It wasn't until the enquiry started that I realised that some people did actually blame the 96 for their own deaths.
That of course is absolute garbage.

There was a Liverpool fan the other year took his own life because he couldn't live with the guilt of being one of those who pushed from the back. Threw himself under a train.

[WakeyTerrier]

You should read this. One of the most powerful books I've ever read.

[St Charles Owl]

I've read that book, it's very good and very detailed.

[Lord Snooty]

Just because a book is titled "the truth" doesn't necessarily mean it is the truth. There were loads of lies and cover ups going on. Wouldn't be surprised if they were still telling porkies at this inquest that's going on now.