[WBA-Josh]

I think English football is starting to pass Allardyce by. Of course we still have AM-N and Yokuşlu to come into the team but I don't see much changing with this man and his coaching staff.

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I posted after the Blackpool game that we needed 5 points from the next 5 at the minimum otherwise the club should start looking at his job. We got 4.

I don't think we should be sacking him tomorrow morning. I think he needs the next 3 matches with these new signings in the squad and hopefully the 11 to see how they do but he should be now moving towards the thinner ice.

[Stairs]

I just can’t see us ever being g anything else but a good championship team that occasionally gets promoted.

61 years old and I am resigned to never seeing us as a regular top half Premier League team.

Depressing.

[Slick_Footwork]

The performance was okay, in patches. We got bodies forward and carried a threat which we haven't done often away. But in the end it all boils down to the same old story...

The inability to tackle and clear our lines.

You can chop and change players, switch Townsend and Gibbs, switch O'Shea and Furlong, but the reality is that none of them are Premier League players...

And whenever the other team has a spell, which happens in every game at this level, we simply can't keep the goals out. Often it is as basic as being unable to put our foot through the ball.

The one mistake Big Sam made was taking Diagne off. He was probably knackered but with him we carried a threat. After he went off, I never felt like would score.

On the plus side, Yokulsu and AMN will improve us. We might've seen the last of Livermore waddling around at snails pace (for now).

But on the downside, it'll still be the same back 4 for the rest of the season. The same back 4 that hardly looked watertight last season.

But what can we expect? Our net spend on our defence in the summer was a £3m profit after selling Hegazi, our only centre half with top flight experience. At 36, Ivanovic represented a massive risk even to those who were hopeful he would still be able to do it. As for the Kipre signing, obviously Bilic didn't want him, so not sure why Dowling bothered when the purse strings were so tight. £30m spent on 2 left wingers in Grady and Grant, the 2nd looks distinctively average from where I'm sitting. No interest whatsoever on strengthening the full back areas despite the fact they were our weakest link last season.

At least we will be able to renew our rivalry with Sheffield United next season.

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I think English football is starting to pass Allardyce by. Of course we still have AM-N and Yokuşlu to come into the team but I don't see much changing with this man and his coaching staff.

---

I posted after the Blackpool game that we needed 5 points from the next 5 at the minimum otherwise the club should start looking at his job. We got 4.

I don't think we should be sacking him tomorrow morning. I think he needs the next 3 matches with these new signings in the squad and hopefully the 11 to see how they do but he should be now moving towards the thinner ice.

I think he should be given the next 4 games, culminating in Brighton at home.

If we don't show any improvement in that time, we can consider letting him go ahead of the Newcastle game.

While he hasn't had the impact I expected, I think it's too soon yet. I think we're showing some signs of improvement such as more bodies getting forward, but we're still terrible at defending. I think the defensive midfielder will make all the difference, so it's only fair to give Allardyce a few games with him in before he is judged. In his past roles, this was his most important signing.

The Spurs game could be an interesting one. I always thought it might be an easier game for us than Sheffield United. We seem to do better against that type of team and with Kane missing, Spurs can be a little bit toothless. Of course I might be wrong and we might get hammered (most probably). But you never know, sometimes football can be a bit scripted so what's the betting against Maitland Niles getting the winner?

[Minizin]

Bang on Slick. The first half yesterday was so low in quality from both teams - then Sheff Utd showed a bit of fight and we panicked.

We threw in the towel in the summer. Maybe it’s sensible financially in this climate to spend the minimum and try and get by - but what’s the point? Just accepting relegation as a good outcome.

Allardyce and Bilic have the same PPG, though performances are worse under Sam. Neither are miracle workers, neither could keep this reasonable championship team up.

Next year will be tough. How many out of contract, plus the loans? Yes we’ll have some money, but how often do we spend well...

[BaggieSteve]

I'll declare my hand up front by saying that I was extremely disappointed in the dismissal of Bilic, who I genuinely believed had been badly let down by the club's approach to strengthening a Championship squad. However, I also agree with many of my fellow posters who charge him with not improving in key areas with the money available (particularly defence and central midfield) and sentimentally re-signing decent but not outstanding players, such as Krovinovic. These have turned out to be bad errors of judgement.

However, I have to say that I believe the appointment of Allardyce has been an unmitigated disaster. When Bilic was sacked, Dowling gave one of the reasons as we were too easy to beat; I'm guessing Allardyce didn't get that email. In my mind, absolutely nothing has been improved, except that our defending seems to be even more comical. We are now hanging our survival on the performance of two loanees whom we have yet to see - no pressure there, then. Interestingly, the defence - clearly our biggest issue - has not been strengthened. Pleased we have another reserve goalkeeper though.

When Pulis was sacked, we replaced him with Pardew. When this went, very quickly, tits up, we demanded his sacking and hammered the Board for such a shocking appointment, criticisms totally justified by the results. At the time, I don't recall any of us cutting him any slack by saying that he was having to work with Pulis' substandard squad. We knew he was crap and we said so. For Pardew, read Allardyce. I see precious little, if any, difference.

After last night's debacle, I think we all feel, in out heart of hearts, that this is game over for the season. So, just as we did with Pardew, please get rid of the guy and wee Sammy, recognise this is just not working and, if its appropriate, let Jimmy Morrison take over for the remainder of the season, as we did with Big Dave. However, this time don't fall into the sentimental trap of offering him the job of getting us out of the Championship as we did with BD. That didn't work and its unlikely to do so again. At the end of the season, recognise we are at a critical point in the club's history, accept that a one year return back to the EPL may not be the best thing and start to restructure and plan longer term, starting with a young manager with fresh ideas and a desire to play attractive football.

I accept the financial penalties involved in such a approach so it would require Lai to sell the club to someone actually interested in us and football. It's just that I think our current approach of extreme short termism - while indicative of football in general - is killing us.

[Slick_Footwork]

I'll declare my hand up front by saying that I was extremely disappointed in the dismissal of Bilic, who I genuinely believed had been badly let down by the club's approach to strengthening a Championship squad. However, I also agree with many of my fellow posters who charge him with not improving in key areas with the money available (particularly defence and central midfield) and sentimentally re-signing decent but not outstanding players, such as Krovinovic. These have turned out to be bad errors of judgement.

However, I have to say that I believe the appointment of Allardyce has been an unmitigated disaster. When Bilic was sacked, Dowling gave one of the reasons as we were too easy to beat; I'm guessing Allardyce didn't get that email. In my mind, absolutely nothing has been improved, except that our defending seems to be even more comical. We are now hanging our survival on the performance of two loanees whom we have yet to see - no pressure there, then. Interestingly, the defence - clearly our biggest issue - has not been strengthened. Pleased we have another reserve goalkeeper though.

When Pulis was sacked, we replaced him with Pardew. When this went, very quickly, tits up, we demanded his sacking and hammered the Board for such a shocking appointment, criticisms totally justified by the results. At the time, I don't recall any of us cutting him any slack by saying that he was having to work with Pulis' substandard squad. We knew he was crap and we said so. For Pardew, read Allardyce. I see precious little, if any, difference.

After last night's debacle, I think we all feel, in out heart of hearts, that this is game over for the season. So, just as we did with Pardew, please get rid of the guy and wee Sammy, recognise this is just not working and, if its appropriate, let Jimmy Morrison take over for the remainder of the season, as we did with Big Dave. However, this time don't fall into the sentimental trap of offering him the job of getting us out of the Championship as we did with BD. That didn't work and its unlikely to do so again. At the end of the season, recognise we are at a critical point in the club's history, accept that a one year return back to the EPL may not be the best thing and start to restructure and plan longer term, starting with a young manager with fresh ideas and a desire to play attractive football.

I accept the financial penalties involved in such a approach so it would require Lai to sell the club to someone actually interested in us and football. It's just that I think our current approach of extreme short termism - while indicative of football in general - is killing us.

I'd agree that we are down regardless of what happens...

However, I disagree about sacking Allardyce now.

Every manager needs a fair crack of the whip and that means a few games with all of his signings in the team. As yet, 50% of his signings haven't kicked a ball and Diagne has only been here 5 days.

Despite that, early impressions of Diagne are that he's head and shoulders above the strikers already at the club that we paid big money for.

I acknowledge that Allardyce has failed to sort the defence. I expected him to be able to improve us in this department and that hasn't been the case. But I think the fact we haven't strengthened is largely down to us having zero cash in the bank rather than Allardyce not wanting to sign someone. Not sure what happened to the Hegazi and Ferguson cash. I guess spent already on Grant, who on current evidence looks like massive waste of money...

But I do think the defensive midfielder will make a big impact. I watch La Liga and he looks like a good player. A big strong protector who can play a bit. Much better than the tripe we recruited in our terrible summer recruitment phase.

And that's why I think Big Sam needs 4 or 5 more games with him in the team.

To play devils advocate on the comparison with Pardew, I think this squad is massively inferior to the squad Pardew inherited from Pulis. That squad had plenty of top level and international experience in Foster, Dawson, Evans, Gibbs, Hegazi, Chadli, Krychowiak, Rodriguez, Rondon and the old school of Brunt, Barry, Yacob and McAuley. The only Premier League experience in this squad is Gibbs, who is 2 years older (and far worse) than he was back then and Ivanovic, a 36 year old. New blood is absolutely imperative to improve this side.

If nothing improves after 4-5 games, we can give Mozza (or someone else) a chance. There will still be sufficient time for him to show what he can do.

[drewks]

Love the term "extreme short termism" Steve!

[BaggieSteve]

Love the term "extreme short termism" Steve!          

Not sure where it came from Drewks. I guess extreme short termism defines what happens in the next ten minutes

---

I'll declare my hand up front by saying that I was extremely disappointed in the dismissal of Bilic, who I genuinely believed had been badly let down by the club's approach to strengthening a Championship squad. However, I also agree with many of my fellow posters who charge him with not improving in key areas with the money available (particularly defence and central midfield) and sentimentally re-signing decent but not outstanding players, such as Krovinovic. These have turned out to be bad errors of judgement.

However, I have to say that I believe the appointment of Allardyce has been an unmitigated disaster. When Bilic was sacked, Dowling gave one of the reasons as we were too easy to beat; I'm guessing Allardyce didn't get that email. In my mind, absolutely nothing has been improved, except that our defending seems to be even more comical. We are now hanging our survival on the performance of two loanees whom we have yet to see - no pressure there, then. Interestingly, the defence - clearly our biggest issue - has not been strengthened. Pleased we have another reserve goalkeeper though.

When Pulis was sacked, we replaced him with Pardew. When this went, very quickly, tits up, we demanded his sacking and hammered the Board for such a shocking appointment, criticisms totally justified by the results. At the time, I don't recall any of us cutting him any slack by saying that he was having to work with Pulis' substandard squad. We knew he was crap and we said so. For Pardew, read Allardyce. I see precious little, if any, difference.

After last night's debacle, I think we all feel, in out heart of hearts, that this is game over for the season. So, just as we did with Pardew, please get rid of the guy and wee Sammy, recognise this is just not working and, if its appropriate, let Jimmy Morrison take over for the remainder of the season, as we did with Big Dave. However, this time don't fall into the sentimental trap of offering him the job of getting us out of the Championship as we did with BD. That didn't work and its unlikely to do so again. At the end of the season, recognise we are at a critical point in the club's history, accept that a one year return back to the EPL may not be the best thing and start to restructure and plan longer term, starting with a young manager with fresh ideas and a desire to play attractive football.

I accept the financial penalties involved in such a approach so it would require Lai to sell the club to someone actually interested in us and football. It's just that I think our current approach of extreme short termism - while indicative of football in general - is killing us.

I'd agree that we are down regardless of what happens...

However, I disagree about sacking Allardyce now.

Every manager needs a fair crack of the whip and that means a few games with all of his signings in the team. As yet, 50% of his signings haven't kicked a ball and Diagne has only been here 5 days.

Despite that, early impressions of Diagne are that he's head and shoulders above the strikers already at the club that we paid big money for.

I acknowledge that Allardyce has failed to sort the defence. I expected him to be able to improve us in this department and that hasn't been the case. But I think the fact we haven't strengthened is largely down to us having zero cash in the bank rather than Allardyce not wanting to sign someone. Not sure what happened to the Hegazi and Ferguson cash. I guess spent already on Grant, who on current evidence looks like massive waste of money...

But I do think the defensive midfielder will make a big impact. I watch La Liga and he looks like a good player. A big strong protector who can play a bit. Much better than the tripe we recruited in our terrible summer recruitment phase.

And that's why I think Big Sam needs 4 or 5 more games with him in the team.

To play devils advocate on the comparison with Pardew, I think this squad is massively inferior to the squad Pardew inherited from Pulis. That squad had plenty of top level and international experience in Foster, Dawson, Evans, Gibbs, Hegazi, Chadli, Krychowiak, Rodriguez, Rondon and the old school of Brunt, Barry, Yacob and McAuley. The only Premier League experience in this squad is Gibbs, who is 2 years older (and far worse) than he was back then and Ivanovic, a 36 year old. New blood is absolutely imperative to improve this side.

If nothing improves after 4-5 games, we can give Mozza (or someone else) a chance. There will still be sufficient time for him to show what he can do.

Well, the next four games are against two top teams (Spurs and Manure) and two near us (Burnley and Brighton), so it will be a fair indication of progress with the new players. Like all of us on this board, regardless of my views on the manager, I want him and the team to succeed, I want us to stay up. I agree, Slick, on the relative merits of the squad but the reality is that, when we replaced the managers (Pulis and Bilic), both squads were at the bottom of the league, both new managers were brought in to remedy that situation and both failed, although Allardyce may yet prove me wrong...I hope so.
Just as Pardew was brought in to improve what was there, so was Allardyce and, let's be honest, the latter arrived in a fanfare of "Allardyce the saviour, miracle worker, never been relegated", descriptions that none of us ever associated with Pardew. My problem is that, to date, I think we've gone backwards under Allardyce, we've not even stabilised, let alone improved. By all means judge him after the next four games and your comment that not to do so when most of his signings haven't yet played, is very fair. I'm just basing my pessimism on what I've seen to date but I would seriously be delighted to be proved completely wrong.

[Slick_Footwork]

Well, the next four games are against two top teams (Spurs and Manure) and two near us (Burnley and Brighton), so it will be a fair indication of progress with the new players. Like all of us on this board, regardless of my views on the manager, I want him and the team to succeed, I want us to stay up. I agree, Slick, on the relative merits of the squad but the reality is that, when we replaced the managers (Pulis and Bilic), both squads were at the bottom of the league, both new managers were brought in to remedy that situation and both failed, although Allardyce may yet prove me wrong...I hope so.
Just as Pardew was brought in to improve what was there, so was Allardyce and, let's be honest, the latter arrived in a fanfare of "Allardyce the saviour, miracle worker, never been relegated", descriptions that none of us ever associated with Pardew. My problem is that, to date, I think we've gone backwards under Allardyce, we've not even stabilised, let alone improved. By all means judge him after the next four games and your comment  that not to do so when most of his signings haven't yet played, is very fair. I'm just basing my pessimism on what I've seen to date but I would seriously be delighted to be proved completely wrong.

Your pessimism might well be merited. But I think we can't be 100% sure he'll not improve us yet. Based on his historic success as a manager, I'd like to see him given a few more games at least with his new signings.

I would agree though, he's failed miserably in terms of improving the personnel we have at the club.

I don't think we're getting any worse mind. We are, at least, committing more men forward, while being equally dreadful at the back. I think we look a bit more like scoring. I thought we looked a bit impotent under Bilic. Although we have been generally an embarrassment under both regimes.

For comparison:

Bilic - 13 League Games - 7 points - 0.54 points per game.
Allardyce - 9 League Games - 5 points - 0.56 points per game.

So it's almost the same. After our first 9 games under Bilic, we had 3 points.

So I think the next 4 games will give us a clear comparison. At that point both will have had 13 league games.

As you say, Man United at home might be a write off with their form on the road. But the others are certainly games that you can take points from, especially with Kane missing for Spurs. If we're unable to gather 4 points from these games (which I think is the minimum acceptable) then we might as well let him go and get someone else in to build for the future. If we can knab a win and a draw and show signs of improvement, maybe give him until the end of the season to save face. Next season will be it's own unique (and very tough) project I feel.

[Worldclassalbion]

I have been away from the site for over 12 months for personal reasons but have been ‘popping in’ and peeking around the door every now and again. I’ve recently started posting here and there over the past few months.

I was gutted when Bilić got the boot but I did say way back that I feared he hadn’t improved on the squad that wasn’t even the best in the championship last season. I was so excited when we resigned Pereira and especially Diangana. I’ve been so disappointed in Grady but hopefully he’ll buck up after this injury he’s had.

I’m at an all time low regards everything Albion. The world is a horrible place at the minute with the Pandemic, added to that supporting Albion is virtually unbearable BUT after being so angry I smashed my iPad last night I am more philosophical again today. The new boys will be in the team on Saturday so I’m with Slick on this one, I can’t see the point in sacking Allardyce now.

Despite no backing from LAI these are the players Sams brought in so let’s see what they can do, after all he has inherited some top quality cack and what is in effect a championship squad.

I was hoping for a few defenders too but I truly think the players he’s brought in are better than what we have. I don’t understand not giving Kipré a chance and letting him leave though, that baffled me.

I’ve crossed my fingers, I’ve prayed to the man upstairs, I’ve moved seats, I’ve done everything but it’s as though we have been cursed ffs.

I just want to see a ray of light in all this endless darkness that surrounds our club. If we sacked him now we’d be more of an embarrassment and a bigger laughing stock for the world to laugh at.

Roll on next season wherever we are.

I’m trying to keep the faith, that’s all we can do.