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Breaking News: WHATS YOUR CONFIDENCE LEVEL 2015-16
#51
Posted another reply but it's disappeared??!
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#52
(21-11-2014, 10:52)talkSAFT Wrote: Can't be arsed to read what Whelan and Mackay said, but I'm starting to dislike the PC brigade more than the people who they villify.

Jocks and Yorkies (hope they're not offended by these titles) actually laugh along when people joke about how tight they are. Irish people laugh along at Irish jokes. And Jewish comedians' repertoire has always been littered with jokes about their love for money, etc. The only people who think they should be offended are the PC.
Brits take the piss out of the rude French, and the Frogs (hope they're not offended) laugh and give it back.
I'm just waiting for the PC to call the Thought Police when visiting fans start chanting "Yam-Yams"! Why aren't we offended by that term, because it sounds like the type of name we should be pretty offended by.

I am so totally NON PC. I have lived with and bantered with peeps from all over the globe. However these days I have a filter in my brain which re-translates my thoughts before speaking or writing things. I have "Learned" that this is better than suffering the abuse dished out by PC peeps with an almighty chip on their shoulder. DD Angry Angry
Ubique.
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#53
All I can tell you is that I've stood shoulder to shoulder with a Jewish mate on a night out while he's had dog's abuse about the kind of nonsense Whelan came out with yesterday, and he didn't feel inclined to laugh it off. Yes, some Jewish comedians make a joke out of it, and fair play to them; they view it as a handy defence mechanism. (I'm reminded of the great Groucho Marx in a swanky New York hotel in the 1930s, who, when getting ready to go for a swim, was suddenly told by a staff member that no Jews were allowed in the pool. In a heartbeat, he answered: "Well, my son's only half-Jewish; can he go in up to his waist?") But for all Groucho joked, the hotel didn't change its rules for him. They didn't change until decent folks actually stood up to them.

My mate was always inclined to a laugh and a joke about stereotypes as well - it is one of the best ways for people to get on with one another, and I too have laughed and bantered with all manner of people in my life - but I've seen his honest, gut-wrenching reaction when a stranger's come up to him and started flinging this "money-grabber" shit at him out of nowhere, and it wasn't pretty. So seeing someone in a position of wealth, power and influence apparently peddling the same moronic stuff? Nope, not letting that slide.

All I've asked is for Dave Whelan to explain what he meant. I won't apologise for that. I won't be ashamed of that. In the circumstances, it is absolutely the right thing to do.
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"I would rather spend a holiday in Tuscany than in the Black Country, but if I were compelled to choose between living in West Bromwich or Florence, I should make straight for West Bromwich." - J.B. Priestley
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#54
Of course I understand why Ska'd is making that point. It must be hell to receive such abuse, especially from a total stranger, and for people to want to abuse someone just because they're different is a sad reflection on the human race.
"Different" people (eg Serbs in Croatia, Hindus in Pakistan, Blacks in Ireland, etc etc) will be made to feel uncomfortable because humans are not perfect, and one bad trait is that they have a phobia, in the true sense (ie a fear) of strangers, or "different" people. It's something inbred in us all, and the ONLY way that thought will go away is when different people are fully integrated into a society. It's a dream, but it's unlikely to happen for a very long time worldwide. Even then, we'll get conflict due to different beliefs, as we are learning more and more these days.
There's relative harmony in the US simply because of integration, but the phobia still exists in white-only (and black-only/red-only) areas of the country. But it is better - and lasts longer - when the mistrust and hatred disappears....from within.
People don't need Political Correctness rammed down their throats, because it only makes the haters dig their heels in. My old man was a total racist when the blacks took over our Handsworth in the 50s. Me and my brother would reason, and fight with him, without success. But after working with, and getting to know folks from a different race FOR HIMSELF, he's come to his senses. But he would never have been told by PCs - that would have made him worse.
What I'm saying is that PCers actually do more practical harm than good, and many of them pretend to care because it makes them feel good about themselves. "Different" people don't need Local people (or whatever) to fight their wars for them - they/we are quite capable of winning people over without being patronised.
Ska'dForLife-WBA and drewks like this post
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#55
Well said talksaft.

Ska'd too - IMO virtually all you say is fair and valid; however 'abuse' is different. It's how some people view 'abuse', and how they define it that (IMO) is ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm just off for some self flagellation for even thinking to try & defend someone that has upset the PC Police Dodgy
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#56
(21-11-2014, 16:53)drewks Wrote: Well said talksaft.

Ska'd too - IMO virtually all you say is fair and valid; however 'abuse' is different. It's how some people view 'abuse', and how they define it that (IMO) is ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm just off for some self flagellation for even thinking to try & defend someone that has upset the PC Police Dodgy

Cheers, Drewks.
I'm off for some "self-flagellation" as well........ I just lie back and think about the Albion.
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#57
Okay guys, I think we're seeing eye to eye on this now. Yes, abuse is a different kettle of fish, but I've seen enough in my life to believe that when people in positions of power and influence come out with blanket statements which are demonstrably untrue, it only eggs unscrupulous thugs with similar beliefs on to abuse. I completely agree that the best way to combat ignorance is through having people actually get out there and experience difference and diversity for themselves, but if they're sitting in a press conference spouting these things out, what then? Do you turn a blind eye? Personally, I feel that speaking up, challenging them and saying "actually mate, you're wrong about that, and this is why" is the better option.

But of course, I'm not the one in a position of power; I'm an ordinary bloke trying to do what's right.

Happy to leave it there, either way. Not for the first time, I don't feel we're particularly at odds on this, but it seems to be the method of tackling this we differ on rather than the principle.
"I would rather spend a holiday in Tuscany than in the Black Country, but if I were compelled to choose between living in West Bromwich or Florence, I should make straight for West Bromwich." - J.B. Priestley
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#58
"......speaking up, challenging them and saying "actually mate, you're wrong about that, and this is why" is the better option."
Agree with you, Ska'd.
"People in power" or in the public eye have an obligation to help work towards a happy and friendly society, and BNP, UKIP, and other extremists should be laughed off the stage.
Challenging bigots in pubs will probably never work, though, because it will only fuel their fire and make them worse. So will PCers, telling them what to think.
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#59
After some umming and ahing about this post I thought in the finish I should post. if only to try and explain what it is like to be on the receiving end.  I was born in 60, my dad coming from southern Italy so have just a hint of an "Olive" completion. As people rightly say abuse is abuse and should not be tolerated.

But just having a laugh is OK?  How do you know the person you are making fun of, and you must be making fun, if you are having a laugh, is laughing inside.  They may very well be hurting inside but they are not going to let you know that or it would just make matters worse, by the very nature of having a laugh you are saying you are not one of us, so the person just laughs along to try to be part of the crowd.  Then you will get the "You can call me want you want I don't care, so why should you."  The big difference is it does not matter what you call that person because they are surrounded by people of a similar ilk, so they are totally comfortable, you are on your own in the joke.

That said the PC brigade I agree have not helped a great deal, as many have said with some of their comments, however, others I do agree with like changing a fireman to a firefighter, if a female firefighter  is prepared to come into a burning building to save me, then the least I can do is not call her a man.

On a lighter note one of my favourite tee-shirts ever was one a black friend of mine had that went something like

When I was born, I was black, When I grew up, I was black,  When I'm sick, I'm black,  When I go out in the sun, I'm black,  When I'm cold, I'm black, When I die, I'll be black,

You

When you're born, you're pink,  When you grow up, you're white, When you're sick, you're green,  When you go out in the sun, your red,  When you're cold, your blue,
When you die, you'll be black and purple.........................  And you have the nerve to call me coloured!
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#60
(21-11-2014, 18:58)Salopbaggie Wrote: On a lighter note one of my favourite tee-shirts ever was one a black friend of mine had that went something like

When I was born, I was black, When I grew up, I was black,  When I'm sick, I'm black,  When I go out in the sun, I'm black,  When I'm cold, I'm black, When I die, I'll be black,

You

When you're born, you're pink,  When you grow up, you're white, When you're sick, you're green,  When you go out in the sun, your red,  When you're cold, your blue,
When you die, you'll be black and purple.........................  And you have the nerve to call me coloured!

...all that? On a t-shirt??
Was he (OR SHE) XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL??

(Not that there's anything wrong with non-thin people, of course  Big Grin  Big Grin )

Good debate anyway - slight differences of opinion maybe but that's not unhealthy if we can all remain civil about it and respect each other  Thumb up
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