[May68]

Great post HarryJ. Nice to see this forum isn't completely populated by the Daily Mail Brigade. It's about time this country faced the reality of its bloody history of empire-building.

[talkSAFT]

"It's about time this country faced the reality of its bloody history of empire-building."

- Not till we get an apology from the Itis, the Scandinavians, and the Normans.

I had family tortured by the Romans, and I grieve for them every day. (This was 80 generations ago, but the pain just doesn't go away.)

[May68]

I didn't say we should apologise; I said we should face reality. The Roman Empire no longer exists in any kind of continued form so I'm afraid there would be no one to say the apology. Britain however does still exist in a continued form and still teaches its (own version of) history to children so this is why it is still relevant. Your argument is essentially 'bad people did things in Britain a long time ago so I'm not going to think about the bad things Britain has done since'.

[silverbaggie]

Quantum, have you ever heard the expression 'standing up for your principles'

Yes McLean has stood up for his own principles regarding his apparent anti British stance. Whether justified or not is a matter of personal opinion.

But, why would someone with those kind of strong feelings towards a Country or it's armed forces, ever agree to go and work there!!

Double standards:- he dislikes what we stand for but is more than happy to ply his trade within a Country whose people by and large, supports the Monarchy he so detests.

Like Baggieman and DD, I would like this man to be shown the exit now!

[BaggyBomber]

I didn't say we should apologise; I said we should face reality. The Roman Empire no longer exists in any kind of continued form so I'm afraid there would be no one to say the apology. Britain however does still exist in a continued form and still teaches its (own version of) history to children so this is why it is still relevant.  Your argument is essentially 'bad people did things in Britain a long time ago so I'm not going to think about the bad things Britain has done since'.

What's "it's (own version of) history"?

[Arcane Astral Aeons]

Quantum, have you ever heard the expression 'standing up for your principles'

Yes McLean has stood up for his own principles regarding his apparent anti British stance. Whether justified or not is a matter of personal opinion.

But, why would someone with those kind of strong feelings towards a Country or it's armed forces, ever agree to go and work there!!

Double standards:- he dislikes what we stand for but is more than happy to ply his trade within a Country whose people by and large, supports the Monarchy he so detests.

Like Baggieman and DD, I would like this man to be shown the exit now!

just think it`s another example of:
"if you don`t like us **** off"
sorry if this offends anyone
but the "ENGLISH" way aint always the best way

[BaggyBomber]

so what
fair play to him for not betraying his moral beliefs

i don`t see in any law book that you have to stand and observe the English national anthem
it`s not his
he is Irish after all

and before anyone tears me to shreds for posting this
this whole episode would not have happened if the dumb yanks had not insisted on playing it before the game in question

have read all the posts on this thread and to be fair
some of them are way,way,way out of order.

i personally don`t give a rats ass about his beliefs
we all have our own(Don`t we?)

leave the guy alone
we signed him as a football player

didn`t we?

He has chosen to make his beliefs public and not for the first time.  I can't believe we signed him knowing his history.  A poor way to pull the supporters together for the coming season.

[Arcane Astral Aeons]

so what
fair play to him for not betraying his moral beliefs

i don`t see in any law book that you have to stand and observe the English national anthem
it`s not his
he is Irish after all

and before anyone tears me to shreds for posting this
this whole episode would not have happened if the dumb yanks had not insisted on playing it before the game in question

have read all the posts on this thread and to be fair
some of them are way,way,way out of order.

i personally don`t give a rats ass about his beliefs
we all have our own(Don`t we?)

leave the guy alone
we signed him as a football player

didn`t we?

He has chosen to make his beliefs public and not for the first time.  I can't believe we signed him knowing his history.  A poor way to pull the supporters together for the coming season.

excuse me(again) for saying this
but don`t we support WBA?
as i posted earlier he has his beliefs,I(and everyone on here) have their own
this is turning into some kind of political witch-hunt against the guy
so what he don`t accept the ENGLISH national anthem
who cares
i bet not one of you stands to attention when you hear it...

[BaggyBomber]

Quantum, have you ever heard the expression 'standing up for your principles'

Yes McLean has stood up for his own principles regarding his apparent anti British stance. Whether justified or not is a matter of personal opinion.

But, why would someone with those kind of strong feelings towards a Country or it's armed forces, ever agree to go and work there!!

Double standards:- he dislikes what we stand for but is more than happy to ply his trade within a Country whose people by and large, supports the Monarchy he so detests.

Like Baggieman and DD, I would like this man to be shown the exit now!

just think it`s another example of:
"if you don`t like us **** off"
sorry if this offends anyone
but the "ENGLISH" way aint always the best way

Well, I suppose there is an element of that, QE but, he must know views on this subject are strongly held and demonstrating his commitment so publicly and, apparently so insultingly, was ever likely to cause problems.  Unless you enjoy being openly confrontational, why choose to live and work amongst people, some of whom, you know that you are bound to upset?  I know I wouldn't.

[HarryJAllstarWBA]

"It's about time this country faced the reality of its bloody history of empire-building."

- Not till we get an apology from the Itis, the Scandinavians, and the Normans.

I had family tortured by the Romans, and I grieve for them every day. (This was 80 generations ago, but the pain just doesn't go away.)

You can't compare Bloody Sunday to things that happened 2000 years ago. I get your point but McLean would know people directly Affected by it and you're being facetious to compare it to the Romans