[St Charles Owl]

Sorry, Charles but if that gate isn't opened, no one dies, the police simply did not control the crowd properly, inside or outside the ground. Agreed on the safety certificate just making the point it didn't have one.

As I said earlier in the thread and as Theo just stated, had that gate not been opened then there was a very real chance of supporters being killed outside the ground due to the crush going on out there!!  This all started because too many fans turned up too close to the kick off and still expected to get into the  ground quickly!!!  While it was predominantly  the ones who arrived early who died, it was the ones who arrived late who started the crush, first outside the ground and then inside the tunnel and the pens.

You are right, the police did not effectively control the crowd, both outside and inside the ground, and they are to  blame for that, but the fans turning out of the pubs 5 mins before the kick off also share responsibility because it was this that started the whole chain of event rolling!!  

By the way, to me it makes little difference that it was Liverpool fans, any set of supporters in the 1980s would have behaved the same way, and the same chain of event was likely to happen.  For me this was a disaster waiting to happen at almost any big game, at almost any ground and with almost any set of supporters due to the way football fans were simply herded and treated like cattle by the authorities, especially after events such as Heysel or Luton or any other number of incidences.  I remember being stood on the Holte end for our FA Cup semi final against Everton in 1986 and for most of the match it was a struggle to find space on the terrace and feel comfortable.  Not saying we were about to die, but had a barrier given way, or trouble started or a few people stumbled, then we could easily have been talking about an alternative disaster. I am sure all of us have experienced these situations at some point, especially back then!!

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Anyway back to grudges.
Our next game. Sheffield Wednesday. Apart from SCO, who seems to be a decent bloke, the majority of their fans on this board and the old one are a bunch of muppets.

I completely concur!!!!