[TheWorthinGer]

Now this is a genuine question was there sectarian singing at Rangers games before or after Celtic FC were formed??,I'm no exactly a historian on this matter.

Rangers were really not successful until celtic came along,then they gathered the tremendous anti-irish sentiment in scotland at that point behind them and became a much bigger club. That's just the way it went.

That's why they aren't one of the "19" on the scottish cup whilst hibs,hearts and celtic all are. Even though they had 15 years more than celtic to do it.

Ah, so sectarianism existed prior to Rangers.  Rangers is not the source of sectarianism and it's a societal problem.

Glad you finally found the truth.

And, while Rangers didn't win the Scottish cup prior to the formation of Celtic they did appear in two finals, one more than Hibs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sc...Cup_finals

[hibeejim21]

Sectarianism existed as a societal problem and rangers became a vehicle,an expression for it.They evolved into that role due to the fact that Celtic started to dominate Scots fiba for a while and the Protestant community needed to see that there was a challenge to Celtic. Its pretty well documented.

You can have the more final appearances,big deal - hibs have the trophy from that era and are proudly on the scottish cup along with the other major scottish clubs from that time.

---

Incidentally lugtons book about hibernians history pre- the great war is full of loads of interesting stuff from this period in scottish fitba history. Whilst WH murrays book of "the old firm" is also a fascinating read.

[TheWorthinGer]

Sectarianism existed as a societal problem and rangers became a vehicle,an expression for it.They evolved into that role due to the fact that Celtic started to dominate Scots fiba for a while and the Protestant community needed to see that there was a challenge to Celtic. Its pretty well documented.

You can have the more final appearances,big deal - hibs have the trophy from that era and are proudly on the scottish cup along with the other major scottish clubs from that time.

---

Incidentally lugtons book about hibernians history pre-war is full of loads of interesting stuff from this period in scottish fitba history. Whilst WH murrays book of "the old firm" is also a fascinating read.

It's obvious that you now accept that the sectarianism visible in Scottish society is in no way sourced from Rangers. Well done - sanity has favoured you with facts.

The footballing point being  that your statement that regarding the stature of Rangers based of the history of the Scottish cup misses the point that they were obviously still as successful as Hibs in that they may not have won the competition but they had come close on two occasions: one of our finals was lost at the third replay and the other was a walkover at the second replay - both to one of the country's most successful sides of the era.

And please accept my congratulations at your ability to read a couple of books.  No, really, well done.

[HerefordBull]

I honestly wish a lot more supporters/people would remove their apathy from the issue of effective enforcement to considerably reduce this kinda practise in Scotland. As said previously, I think this problem can be effectively tackled with the proper resource and commitment. There is an appropriate solution/antidote for the sectarian poison at Ibrox but it has to be administered by enforcers who are committed to changing things with the full cooperation of the relative football club, in this case Rangers FC. Also re fan enforcement SCO, I'd say this is more difficult than initially assumed. Certain decent Rangers fans who I knew in years gone by occasionally discussed this consistent problem eg sitting beside a very loud Northern Irishman with a clear sectarian problem, a nightmare scenario for 90 mins for someone who is interested in the footie but has no interest in this shit! Asked why not just report the guy to Police or stewards, the reply was a resounding no for fear of violence, intimidation or reprisal. Sympathy prevails in that situation but I'd say report it in a secretive manner. A modern day technique would be to video the offender using a decent mobile phone and that would be the starting point for an eventual all out ban from the stadium. When society has lost all patience re the practise of sectarianism and using a sport as a 'platform of hate' then the 'game is up' at some point. IMO we're gradually moving towards that point. It's not gonna happen overnight but it will come as the level of tolerance is eroded in our wider civilised society!

Well spotted WorthinGer....silly me.  

Indeed - in your haste to damn the club you forgot the facts. 

Force of habit I'd say.

Did you see how Hibs , and their fans, cheated to have a Rangers player sent off?

Or was it Fyvie that did it?

If you read the line you have picked me up on it states that what I said was aimed at ANY CLUB whose supporters sing bile and not aimed at any one club. Perhaps you should not be easy to criticise me about being hasty as you obviously thought my comments were aimed at Rangers in particular which they were not.

Too quick to try and stir things up.......think first before you write, if that is possible 

[TheWorthinGer]

I honestly wish a lot more supporters/people would remove their apathy from the issue of effective enforcement to considerably reduce this kinda practise in Scotland. As said previously, I think this problem can be effectively tackled with the proper resource and commitment. There is an appropriate solution/antidote for the sectarian poison at Ibrox but it has to be administered by enforcers who are committed to changing things with the full cooperation of the relative football club, in this case Rangers FC. Also re fan enforcement SCO, I'd say this is more difficult than initially assumed. Certain decent Rangers fans who I knew in years gone by occasionally discussed this consistent problem eg sitting beside a very loud Northern Irishman with a clear sectarian problem, a nightmare scenario for 90 mins for someone who is interested in the footie but has no interest in this shit! Asked why not just report the guy to Police or stewards, the reply was a resounding no for fear of violence, intimidation or reprisal. Sympathy prevails in that situation but I'd say report it in a secretive manner. A modern day technique would be to video the offender using a decent mobile phone and that would be the starting point for an eventual all out ban from the stadium. When society has lost all patience re the practise of sectarianism and using a sport as a 'platform of hate' then the 'game is up' at some point. IMO we're gradually moving towards that point. It's not gonna happen overnight but it will come as the level of tolerance is eroded in our wider civilised society!

Well spotted WorthinGer....silly me.  

Indeed - in your haste to damn the club you forgot the facts. 

Force of habit I'd say.

Did you see how Hibs , and their fans, cheated to have a Rangers player sent off?

Or was it Fyvie that did it?

If you read the line you have picked me up on it states that what I said was aimed at ANY CLUB whose supporters sing bile and not aimed at any one club. Perhaps you should not be easy to criticise me about being hasty as you obviously thought my comments were aimed at Rangers in particular which they were not.

Too quick to try and stir things up.......think first before you write, if that is possible 

Note: "damn the club".  No mention of Rangers.  My point is that the club is not responsible the behaviour of its fans unless it actively encourages such behaviour.

If you could just think...

[hibeejim21]

Good to see you don't deny that rangers became a vehicle and expression for it, well you cant really can you. Even you can't be that awkward. Just because it existed prior doesn't excuse rangers role in promoting it. 


"misses the point that they were obviously still as successful as Hibs in that they may not have won the competition but they had come close on two occasions"


 The key part of this statement folks is "may not have won the competition".

Only in rangers world does not winning = being still as successful. xxxx nugget.

[HerefordBull]

Have you ever sung "Billy Boys" Worth?

[Fredstersafool]

Nice question Exeter.

[TheWorthinGer]

Good to see you don't deny that rangers became a vehicle and expression for it, well you cant really can you. Even you can't be that awkward. Just because it existed prior doesn't excuse rangers role in promoting it. 


"misses the point that they were obviously still as successful as Hibs in that they may not have won the competition but they had come close on two occasions"


 The key part of this statement folks is "may not have won the competition".

Only in rangers world does not winning = being still as successful. **** nugget.

"promoting" - pish.  Sectarianism is a societal problem.  If you racially abuse someone in a pub does it then follow that pubs promote racism?  No, that some people may air their views in the pub doesn;t mean that the pub formed their opinions.

Runner - up twice, not as successful as winner but still success and far from your statement of:

Rangers were really not successful until celtic came along...That's why they aren't one of the "19" on the scottish cup whilst hibs,hearts and celtic all are".

---

Have you ever sung "Billy Boys" Worth?

Why do you ask?

[Fredstersafool]

Shit answer though.