08-02-2021, 01:38
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2021, 02:13 by Slick_Footwork.)
(07-02-2021, 22:15)bomberbrown1968 Wrote: I think I'd use Sawyers in a comparison with the Pereira dilemma and at the risk of sounding like a broken record I struggle to see exactly what it is Sawyers brings to the team either defensively or going forward. Whatever it is that Allardyce & Bilic before see in training then it's become blatantly obvious that he doesn't bring it with him on matchdays. It's a shame and all that and because he originally came through the ranks there's a little more sympathy than I'd normally afford to most footballers. But Sawyers is no more a premier league player than I am, he'd do a job in a mid table championship club but that's about his level. If we're talking about carrying Pereira when we haven't got the ball, we've done exactly the same with Sawyers every game this season.
I don't want to harp on about Sawyers, he gets enough stick, justifiably, from all of us. Where I use the comparison is that Pereira at least can turn a game or even win it, yes he can be a luxury but he's had nobody to do his dirty work for him like most luxury players. I agree mid table Prem is probably where he is, but we've got 12 points for god sake from 23 games, a couple of 0-0 draws and the odd 1-0 smash & grab is never going to keep us up. 15 games left and we might have to win 10 of them, so today we rock up with Sawyers as the holding midfielder, Pereira on the bench and Yokuslu sat next to him, where's the intent to try and win. This is my reason why there's no point keeping Allardyce, he was purely appointed to keep us up and it's not going to happen, and I'll never understand the 18 month contract, the 3 new boys won't win us 10 games on their own. Diagne might score 2 in a game but we'd still concede 3, Yokuslu might improve the cover in front of the defence, but I doubt we'll keep another clean sheet this season.
I've seen worse teams for the Baggies but never ones that don't seem to be able to compete.
I agree it's unforgiveable that Sawyers is selected in the defensive midfield role. Allardyce made a big mistake not playing Yokuslu.
But to be fair to Sawyers, I think he's a good ball player. He's plays good penetrative passes between the lines when others would play back and square. They often go unnoticed because they are the pass before the assist. He's also capable of creating chances, if you look at the pass he played over the top to Grant at Liverpool, he's the only player at the club capable of doing that. As Josh alludes to, when he was played higher up the pitch at Brentford he created more chances than anyone else in the Championship.
My problem with him is that he has zero defensive awareness and the tackling prowess of an under 12. He's constantly looking to "play" when he's too deep and that has lead to him getting caught in possession in dangerous positions. He costs us goals that way and also when he fails to mark (like today) or tackle (as we have seen numerous times). He simply isn't fit for purpose in defensive midfield.
But to be fair to Allardyce, at least he has identified that we needed to strengthen that role. Something that wasn't identified in the summer despite being blatantly obvious from last season IMO. I don't think we can blame Allardyce for the fact that we didn't have a defensive midfielder registered at the club until 5th February. We're the only club in the history of the Premier League that I can think of that went into a season without a specialist sitting midfielder. Livermore was the closest thing and he's never been a naturally disciplined sitter that senses danger, just a bog standard box-to-box player who can tackle.
Surely he deserves a few games with these players all playing together... Which I'm sure they all will from now on...
That said, I agree Yokulsu should've been thrown straight in. I have no idea what Allardyce was thinking. The only explanation I can give is that he didn't think Yokulsu was ready and the midfield performance on against Sheffield United - when Sawyers was dropped - was dreadful. Livermore and co couldn't keep the ball for more than a pass. I guess Allardyce thought Sawyers would have more time on the ball as the likes of Ndombele and Hojbjerg don't really press. As it happened, we were better on the ball than against Sheffield, but Sawyers lack of marking cost us a goal again.
I think it's unfair to say Pereira being dropped for Grant - someone brought in as a striker who bagged 18 goals last season - can be seen as showing no intent to win. Don't get me wrong, Pereira is obviously a higher quality footballer, but there has to be a trade off between talent and work rate, especially against Aurier who is one of the most attack minded full backs in the league. I personally think had Pereira shown just a modicum of effort to defend from the front against Sheffield United he would've kept his place. But his effort to stop Basham breaking out with the ball was none existent.
Sam will play him. He has always played flair players at every club he's managed. It's up to Pereira if he can be arsed to just do 'a bit' of the other side of the game. If he does, he'll be picked week in and week out. But I have to sympathise with Sam because I thought his performance at Sheffield United was unacceptable. If you're having an 'off day' on the ball, you must at least break sweat defensively.
(08-02-2021, 00:13)BaggieSteve Wrote: Slick, my problem with his tactics are not limited to us playing away at higher level grounds, it’s at home as well. I basically don’t see any tactics or pattern beyond one that bypasses the midfield and punts the ball long. I accept that to play through the midfield you need the players who are technically capable of that but I believe we have those. I watch Fulham and Brighton and I see two teams who move the ball through the midfield, break quickly and create space. I watch us and I see balls knocked long or medium/long which just gift possession to the opposition- I haven’t looked at them but I’m guessing our possession stats in most games will be well below the oppositions. We either do not want to, or are not capable, of playing a possession game but our opponents are and it’s killing us.
I’d also say that, in the current situation with no crowds, home or away is largely irrelevant as can be seen by the number of away wins this year. Home advantage counts for little so there is not really any excuse for differing the tactics by ground - by opposition definitely but not by venue. That works for Allardyce as we play the same way regardless.
I’m with you in thinking there’s no point changing the manager now; I do think he’s awful but I believe we’re fu*ked already. I’d rather part company at the end of the season but start the process of identifying a replacement now for next season’s championship campaign
I do see where you're coming from. I feel we are a bit more effective in getting players into the box than we were earlier in the season, but we have definitely sacrificed some of the ball.
Neither method has been particularly effective. In an ideal world we would strike a balance of being able to keep the ball while progressing and creating chances.
However I am somewhat of the opinion that we have (or at least had, prior to the recent signings) vastly inferior quality in the middle of the park compared to Fulham and Brighton. I mean Livermore and Sawyers are the definition of plodders. Both operate at snail pace and in Livermore, you have one of the least accomplished midfielders on the ball in the league. Sawyers wants too many touches as did Krovinovic and neither had the pace to justify them. In Gallagher we do have some dynamism at least, but very average quality.
In Anguissa, Lemina and Loftus Cheek, Fulham posses both quality and dynamism. Likewise, I'd take Bissouma, Ben White, Lallana and co from Brighton in a heartbeat. There's just so much more mobility in both sides, capable of moving through the pitch with the ball.
Plus I think it helps them to play when when they've got options marauding forward from fullback like Robinson at Fulham and Lamptey at Brighton. Our fullbacks are simply dreadful and even with the new midfielders introduced, we'll still be choosing from a bunch of bog standard Championship players to play at fullback.
I guess we will have to see if anything changes when Snodgrass, Yokulsu and AMN are all playing together. With 3 midfield signings, I think there's no excuse not to progress the style of play.
