[Salopbaggie]

On a lighter note one of my favourite tee-shirts ever was one a black friend of mine had that went something like

When I was born, I was black, When I grew up, I was black,  When I'm sick, I'm black,  When I go out in the sun, I'm black,  When I'm cold, I'm black, When I die, I'll be black,

You

When you're born, you're pink,  When you grow up, you're white, When you're sick, you're green,  When you go out in the sun, your red,  When you're cold, your blue,
When you die, you'll be black and purple.........................  And you have the nerve to call me coloured!

...all that? On a t-shirt??
Was he (OR SHE) XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL??

(Not that there's anything wrong with non-thin people, of course     )

Good debate anyway - slight differences of opinion maybe but that's not unhealthy if we can all remain civil about it and respect each other  

Absolutely and small print  

[BaggieMan]

Dave Whelan has always seemed a decent bloke to me and now is on the verge of virtually being forced to quit as Chairman of Wigan after suffering abuse following his Malky MacKay comments. The PC brigade just pick on a small part of what he said and all hell breaks loose. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Racist ? There's more racialism in a rice pudding than in Dave Whelan and what he said.

[Stairs]

He should have known better than say it. But just because he did, it does not make him a racist.

The PC brigade are animals when they see a chance. Just like the mob that turn out and make a peaceful protest look like civil unrest.

Hate them all.

[Salopbaggie]

He should have known better than say it. But just because he did, it does not make him a racist.

The PC brigade are animals when they see a chance. Just like the mob that turn out and make a peaceful protest look like civil unrest.

Hate them all.

Stairs this must be one of the first posts I have seen of yours that I 100% disagree with, of course it makes him a racist not because he said what he did, but because someone who was not a racist would never of said it.

I know that sounds a bit strange so I will try and explain my comment, racism has many different forms and ways of expression. Obliviously you have the simple direct racism, that does not like people of a different colour or race based purely on those factors. But you also have comments made which are made by people who have a subtle racism, who may happily say "I did not mean anything by it". Well if you do not mean anything by what you say, why say it? Another favourite is, I am not racist I have load of mates who are *****" (whatever).

Pesonally, I do not consider myself as one of the PC brigade, but others would because of my earlier comment about firefighters,

"I do agree with like changing (the title of) a fireman to a firefighter, if a female firefighter is prepared to come into a burning building to save me, then the least I can do is not call her a man."

Do you think that is a PC brigade comment and if so does that make me an animal for believing that.

[drewks]

I understand what Stairs is saying though Salop; I too wouldn't class Mr Whelan as a 'racist' by this comment. I think Mr Whelan is in his late 70s and comes from a time where the sort of words he put together WEREN'T indicative of a racist or even a slightly racist viewpoint - it was (and still is with people of that age) just the way they sometimes think and then talk - in a way that is natural to them and their time. However this IS becoming more and more unacceptable - and maybe rightly so - but if there is no malice attached to it my view is similar to Stairs - that the PC Police are just dredging up trouble where there is none.

[BaggieMan]

Spot on as usual Drewks.
Unless we are careful in this country, we won't be able to say a word without some PC officer coming down on you like a ton of bricks. Could saying "He's a churchgoer" be regarded as derisory and politically incorrect ? Could saying "Irvine is incompetent" be regarded in the same way ? Where does it stop ?
All a load of BS in my 'umble opinion.

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

We're not talking about some old-fashioned joke which might be "frowned on" in the modern world. We're not even talking about an old ethnic slur which may have been common in Whelan's youth. We're talking about a centuries-old lie which should have been abandoned outside the gates of Auschwitz in 1945. And given that Whelan was eight years old when the concentration camps were liberated, you'd have thought it might have made some kind of impression on him, or made him ask a few questions. ("Mummy, why did the Germans kill all of those people?" "Well, son, they told lies about those people, and they repeated those lies until people accepted them as the truth. After that, they could do whatever they liked." "Thanks, Mummy. I'll never believe those lies myself, and I certainly won't go spouting them in a press conference in seventy years' time.")

[Salopbaggie]

I understand what you are saying Drewks.... but, the fact that the guy is in his late 70's and whether his terminology was acceptable in his day is irrelevant.  

There were other laws and behaviours in those times which were acceptable then, that are not now.  To say it is just they way they think and then talk, is just a cop out for them unfortunately.  When I was young and growing up the N word was in common use in public and on TV,  In the 60's & 70's Sambo was a term frequently used in one of the most popular tv comedies of the time, there were also even worse derogatory terms in common use on mainstream tv back then, www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhXpmozpbE  if I were to use terms like these it would not be a defence or excuse me, if I did used them.

I am sure Mr Whelan  is not exactly "stupid" given his position. so I think he should have been able to figure out what he was saying.

And the fact that he has gone on record saying "I do not feel the term "xxxx" is offensive to Chinese people" Says it all (***** is the sites edit not mine you will have to look up the quote but I am sure you can guess) :-)

[drewks]

Well, there are different opinions on here, and that's fine by me!
Us English have been called different names collectively too - Limey, Pom, Tommy spring to mind, and I'm honestly not trying to be funny but how is that any different to 'the one for Chinese people'?

Oh, and I think that Ska'd's piece above about the concentration camps is a little over the top - where was that referred to or quoted? Let's not get carried away here!

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

Not sure what you're asking me. Whelan was a child during the Second World War; that's a fact. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure how anyone can live through that, presumably see news footage of concentration camps, and still believe (and later espouse) the same kind of lies which were used to justify the Holocaust. That's not "getting carried away"; it's a pertinent question.