[spireitematt]

So Liverpool's mass walkout against Sunderland on Saturday on the 77th minute has led to a lot of discussion over the last few days about ticket prices in the Premier League, but it's not just the Premier League but football as a whole. Watching any game in any Division in England isn't cheap.

At Arsenal the cheapest ticket is £96 which is the same price as a Bayern Munich season ticket. Chesterfield have some of the most expensive ticket prices in Division 3 and have the 2nd expensive season ticket over Division 3 and 4 with Bristol Rovers having the most expensive season ticket which is £540.00.

Most football fans would like quality for there money and if there team is going through a bad run and hasn't won many home games whose going to fork out the ££££s when they can spend it on something else such as the cinema etc. Also not forgetting we are going through times of austerity and people are going to choose to pay there bills and keep a roof over there heads at that's priority. The only people who I could see paying £77 to watch Liverpool are the day trippers and the tourists who probably make one maybe two games a season. Football used to be a working class game but now working people are out priced and they need an arm and a leg to afford to go to a match now. Also not only are you out pricing the generation of supporters now but what about the next generation and the next generation where's it going to end?

Clubs don't treat fans as fans but as consumers the difference is though supporters can't swap there team for another especially when they've spent a long time supporting them and get emotionally attached. Whereas if you shop at Tesco for example and you're unhappy with there products or prices then you may shop around at Aldi or Lidl looking for the bargains you can't do that with a football club, of course you could go watch a non-league team and help money to go to them but the feeling wouldn't be the same. Football is about community, a sense of belonging.

You have these big business men who come in and buy our clubs and take them over and change them sometimes not for the better, a lot of the business men are foreigners who own big Premier League/ Championship clubs and they don't really understand football and what it means to the fans as they see it as a plaything to make a bit of money.

I also believe that SKY and TV have a lot to do with it as well. Now the Premier League made a £8 billion TV deal and they said when it happened that the £8 billion TV deal would subsidise ticket prices and also money would be shared down the leagues into grassroots football but it looks like they've gone back on the word. They tell fans what they want to hear and do the exact opposite.  

If fans are unhappy then they need to boycott games and refuse to buy merchandise and then it will make the owners think twice and wake up, by paying the prices and moaning won't change anything its like a turkey voting for Christmas.

RANT OVER!

[St Charles Owl]

While I agree that prices are going up too much and its not the working mans sport that it used to be, I think there is also a lot of misinformation surrounding the reality of the prices at clubs. Not singling you out Matt, but Arsenal's cheapest Adult POTD ticket is actually 26 quid and they offer this in nearly all areas of the ground for Category C games. Arsenal have 3 categories, A, B and C, and yes for their 5 Cat A games those prices rise to 64 quid, but still nowhere near the 96 quid quoted. At Liverpool they too have three categories and the lowest price for a ticket in Cat c is 9 quid, with the whole of their famed Kop paying no more than 32 quid for those games. The 77 pound tickets are available in only 2 blocks on the halfway line, so approx 500 seats. Of course as always if you buy a ST then there are further discounts to be had for both these teams, and all others!!

Now having said that, the current trend in prices is causing too many fans to have to pay 40 quid and up for tickets for PL football and for me that is too much, but what can be done about it?? The biggest problem at the PL level is that the grounds are running at 95% full every game even though some fans are paying these high prices, so from a supply and demand perspective they currently have it at worst spot on and in some cases too low if they have waiting lists!! Football whether we like it or not is a business but the average fan is being priced out when its a "premium" product on offer and the fans of those teams are forever demanding the best players be bought and that trophies be won every season, meaning more transfer money and wages being spent requiring more revenue!! And unfortunately its the fan that is being asked to fund this in part, and if those 10k Liverpool fans stopped going I would guess there are 10K in the wings waiting to take their place!

[spireitematt]

While I agree that prices are going up too much and its not the working mans sport that it used to be, I think there is also a lot of misinformation surrounding the reality of the prices at clubs.  Not singling you out Matt, but Arsenal's cheapest Adult POTD ticket is actually 26 quid and they offer this in nearly all areas of the ground for Category C games.  Arsenal have 3 categories, A, B and C, and yes for their 5 Cat A games those prices rise to 64 quid, but still nowhere near the 96 quid quoted.  At Liverpool they too have three categories and the lowest price for a ticket in Cat c is 9 quid, with the whole of their famed Kop paying no more than 32 quid for those games.  The 77 pound tickets are available in only 2 blocks on the halfway line, so approx 500 seats.  Of course as always if you buy a ST then there are further discounts to be had for both these teams, and all others!!

Now having said that, the current trend in prices is causing too many fans to have to pay 40 quid and up for tickets for PL football and for me that is too much, but what can be done about it??  The biggest problem at the PL level is that the grounds are running at 95% full every game even though some fans are paying these high prices, so from a supply and demand perspective they currently have it at worst spot on and in some cases too low if they have waiting lists!!  Football whether we like it or not is a business but the average fan is being priced out when its a "premium" product on offer and the fans of those teams are forever demanding the best players be bought and that trophies be won every season, meaning more transfer money and wages being spent requiring more revenue!!  And unfortunately its the fan that is being asked to fund this in part, and if those 10k Liverpool fans stopped going I would guess there are 10K in the wings waiting to take their place!

A category A game at Arsenal in two sections of the upper tier is £97. Cheapest for an A game at Arsenal is £65.50 which still a lot. £30-£40-£50-£60 is a lot of money for a Premier League ticket then you've got travel, food, beer etc it all adds up. The category C games are against teams like Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc.

A lot of things can be done about it. Wage cap players salaries? Have a cap on how much teams can spend on transfers? Cap how much clubs can charge fans? I mean there's a campaign being going for a few years called Twenty's Plenty. The Premier League and supposedly the whole of the Football League right down to grassroots are getting a share of the £8 BILLION TV DEAL £8 BILLION. Clubs could use that to subsidise ticket prices make tickets cheaper.

Football is a business Yes and every single of the 92 clubs is being run as a business but fans should rewarded not penalised.

Look at German football they have cheap ticket prices, they share the TV revenue, supporters own 51% of there teams, safe standing, we should be copying there model.

"Football without fans is nothing. It could be the greatest game in the World but if there are no people there to watch it, it becomes nothing. The fans are the lifeblood of the game".         - Jock Stein

[St Charles Owl]

 

A category A game at Arsenal in two sections of the upper tier is £97. Cheapest for an A game at Arsenal is £65.50 which still a lot. £30-£40-£50-£60 is a lot of money for a Premier League ticket then you've got travel, food, beer etc it all adds up. The category C games are against teams like Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc.

A lot of things can be done about it. Wage cap players salaries? Have a cap on how much teams can spend on transfers? Cap how much clubs can charge fans? I mean there's a campaign being going for a few years called Twenty's Plenty. The Premier League and supposedly the whole of the Football League right down to grassroots are getting a share of the £8 BILLION TV DEAL £8 BILLION. Clubs could use that to subsidise ticket prices make tickets cheaper.

Football is a business Yes and every single of the 92 clubs is being run as a business but fans should rewarded not penalised.

Look at German football they have cheap ticket prices, they share the TV revenue, supporters own 51% of there teams, safe standing, we should be copying there model.

"Football without fans is nothing. It could be the greatest game in the World but if there are no people there to watch it, it becomes nothing. The fans are the lifeblood of the game".         - Jock Stein

I agree its too much for most fans but let me play devil's advocate!!  You cannot introduce a wage cap into English football without the rest of Europe doing the same, no players of any quality would play here, also I doubt our super European Union would allow such a practice anyway!  They have wage caps here in the US but its for sports where the US is the only viable market for those sport  anyway, so there is nowhere else for the players to go.  Again, the same applies to transfers, Europe or even worldwide or it won't work if just one country does it.

Capping how much clubs can charge fans is definitely doable, but the Premier League have said part of the new TV money will be used for this but I see no evidence of that.  The PL, FA and FL need to get together to agree limits, but they all need to agree and with the current set up at the PL and FL there is no way the clubs will vote for this.  That maybe leaves government regulations to introduce this like they did with seating, but they would never get it passed as it flies in the face of supply and demand and the free market economy.  Its like asking Jaguar to sell their cars at the same price as Hyundai because they essentially do the same thing, football at the top level will always be more expensive than the lower levels.

And yes tickets in Germany are cheaper for a few seats in each stadium, but they too have high prices for certain games and certain seats, albeit lower than the Prem.  Twenty's Plenty is a pipe dream, the clubs will never agree to that, particularly outside the prem where FFP means that ticket revenue is crucial to all clubs from Hull down to York, and they will want the option of maximising revenue if they can to allow them to compete and push for promotion.

I agree with what Jock Stein says, but as I said when you see the waiting lists that the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool have for Season Tickets, then some fans pulling out and refusing to pay the prices will see someone off the waiting list jump in.  While ever the grounds are full, game after game, season after season, the clubs have no business incentive to do anything with regards to lower ticket prices.  Now of course from a moral perspective you would like to think there is at least one owner who starts the trend and introduces reasonable prices across the board for good quality football but he has yet to show himself so far.

[spireitematt]

 

A category A game at Arsenal in two sections of the upper tier is £97. Cheapest for an A game at Arsenal is £65.50 which still a lot. £30-£40-£50-£60 is a lot of money for a Premier League ticket then you've got travel, food, beer etc it all adds up. The category C games are against teams like Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc.

A lot of things can be done about it. Wage cap players salaries? Have a cap on how much teams can spend on transfers? Cap how much clubs can charge fans? I mean there's a campaign being going for a few years called Twenty's Plenty. The Premier League and supposedly the whole of the Football League right down to grassroots are getting a share of the £8 BILLION TV DEAL £8 BILLION. Clubs could use that to subsidise ticket prices make tickets cheaper.

Football is a business Yes and every single of the 92 clubs is being run as a business but fans should rewarded not penalised.

Look at German football they have cheap ticket prices, they share the TV revenue, supporters own 51% of there teams, safe standing, we should be copying there model.

"Football without fans is nothing. It could be the greatest game in the World but if there are no people there to watch it, it becomes nothing. The fans are the lifeblood of the game".         - Jock Stein

I agree its too much for most fans but let me play devil's advocate!!  You cannot introduce a wage cap into English football without the rest of Europe doing the same, no players of any quality would play here, also I doubt our super European Union would allow such a practice anyway!  They have wage caps here in the US but its for sports where the US is the only viable market for those sport  anyway, so there is nowhere else for the players to go.  Again, the same applies to transfers, Europe or even worldwide or it won't work if just one country does it.

Capping how much clubs can charge fans is definitely doable, but the Premier League have said part of the new TV money will be used for this but I see no evidence of that.  The PL, FA and FL need to get together to agree limits, but they all need to agree and with the current set up at the PL and FL there is no way the clubs will vote for this.  That maybe leaves government regulations to introduce this like they did with seating, but they would never get it passed as it flies in the face of supply and demand and the free market economy.  Its like asking Jaguar to sell their cars at the same price as Hyundai because they essentially do the same thing, football at the top level will always be more expensive than the lower levels.

And yes tickets in Germany are cheaper for a few seats in each stadium, but they too have high prices for certain games and certain seats, albeit lower than the Prem.  Twenty's Plenty is a pipe dream, the clubs will never agree to that, particularly outside the prem where FFP means that ticket revenue is crucial to all clubs from Hull down to York, and they will want the option of maximising revenue if they can to allow them to compete and push for promotion.

I agree with what Jock Stein says, but as I said when you see the waiting lists that the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool have for Season Tickets, then some fans pulling out and refusing to pay the prices will see someone off the waiting list jump in.  While ever the grounds are full, game after game, season after season, the clubs have no business incentive to do anything with regards to lower ticket prices.  Now of course from a moral perspective you would like to think there is at least one owner who starts the trend and introduces reasonable prices across the board for good quality football but he has yet to show himself so far.

Sod the EU its nothing but a dictatorship.

I think the PL, FL and FA could agree on capped prices for matches. It's not just the Premier League which has high ticket prices but British football across the board. In Germany and Spain the high prices for games are for the big games between the Munich's and Dortmund's and Barca and Madrids. I can understand why lower league clubs have to charge big prices is because they need the revenue but if you made prices slightly cheaper then you could have sell out stadiums every other week and there would be a chance of creating a bigger fan base and maybe people who support United but live in London might be swayed to go watch Leyton Orient.

I was listening to TalkSport the other day and a lot of callers were ringing in and they were complaining about tickets for away matches and away fans in some cases were asked to pay double sometimes maybe treble than the home fans and said that that it will deter away fans from going and that when an away team scores a goal will the likes of Sky or BT have to play crowd noise?

Bristol City are building a 27,000 all seater stadium now how will teams like Bristol City who have these new stadiums fill them every other week when there charging £28-£32 etc for a home game. Look at MK Dons they built Stadium MK there in the Championship and there is loads of empty black seats the only time they had a sell out house at Stadium MK was when the Rugby World Cup was on, they didn't even sell out when they played Man United in the League Cup.

There will be people who will pay the big prices but those will be day trippers and tourists who go maybe once or twice a season. Clubs are taking fans loyalty for granted and enough is enough its time for fans to make a stand if people don't do anything then prices will rise and rise and the only people who will be able to afford tickets then is the prawn sandwich brigade.

[St Charles Owl]

I agree with most of that. The authorities should change the rules on away tickets, currently the home team can charge the away team the same amount as the equivalent seating home team prices, but this is open to interpretation. The rule at the very least should see the away fans paying the same as the home fans do on their "end", so in Liverpool's case the away fans pay the same prices as those on the Kop. I don't think away fans should get a better deal than home fans though, as I have seen suggested, if anything paying the same is the fairest option.

I think your last paragraph accurately describes what is happening at Liverpool though. There are only 200 77 pound tickets in the ground with the bulk of other tickets being much less that this. As you say there will be corporate "fans" willing to take up all of these so the average fan will not be forced to pay anywhere near those prices.