Allardyce

Alouion · 03-04-2021, 15:50

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea and like many others I was disappointed to see Bilic go but, surely, if he can be persuaded to stay, we MUST keep Allardyce. I read all this stuff about Wilder. Sure, he's done ok at Sheffield but we have had dozens of managers like him over the years with some success behind them, only to fail with us.
Allardyce has definitely made us a better team both defensively and offensively. We are a much tighter unit now. It's too late in the day now to affect our fate and we may well lose some key players but I believe we have a real chance of coming back if he stays. Irrespective of his football allegiance, he is of this area. He understands what a proud history we have and the contribution we have made to to-flight football over the last 140 years.

WBA-Josh · (This post was last modified: 03-04-2021, 20:36 by WBA-Josh.)

That's a hard pass from me. Putting aside today's result, Allardyce's time at the club has been a disaster. His league record currently stands at 17 matches, 14 points, 3 wins, 5 draws, 9 defeats, 15 goals for, 33 goals against and 0.82 points per game. No Head Coach should survive that record come the end of the season, especially one who is known for keeping teams up in this division.

The club needs to hit the reset button in the summer and start fresh. Johnstone and Pereira should be sold to create funds, HRK and other fringe players should go and we should bring in a young coaching set-up and give them 2 seasons to get us back up.

Do I think the club will do that? No I don't. I think they will give Allardyce a big budget and tell him to get us promoted any means necessary.

Baggiebob(BBB) · 03-04-2021, 18:55

Lets be fair, big A can only work with the players he has - and Bilic too - and with no spend and a team of players not up to Prem standard, its no wonder where we are now. Though given a chance to bring in some players, he has definately created in the last 7/8 games a good defensive team, and today the team sparked and scored 5 which has been missing and cost us wins.
Their is still a chance we can stay up.
Unfortunately if we do go down, many of the team will go back to their parent team, but if we get rid of China and get new money, who knows, we could come back stronger.

Slick_Footwork · (This post was last modified: 03-04-2021, 23:48 by Slick_Footwork.)

I was in favour of Allardyce when he was brought in, because I think he knows how to get results. I thought he gave us the best chance of staying up. Admittedly, I didn't think anyone would keep us up though.

His teams have always been a mix of grit and flair and that's what I wanted back at this club...

IMO he inherited what is by far the worst squad in the club's top flight history thanks to a disastrous window under Bilic and Dowling. For me, the squad was an absolute embarrassment.

Now I'll be honest, despite the lack of quality in the squad he inherited, I was disappointed that he struggled to improve the performances initially...

However, since his signings have come in, we've looked IMO 10x better. We have a structure, a pattern of play, an identity.

And that's simply because the guy has the eye to know what we needed. Straight away he identified that we needed a defensive midfielder and proper forward who could hold the ball, which were 2 things that Bilic and Dowling were blind to. And to his credit, he got in much of what we needed while having zero cash to spend and simply having to 'wheel and deal' in the loan market. I think if we had just a Yokulsu type from the start of the season, we would've stayed up.

I firmly believe we would be in a completely different position if Allardyce had the £30m that Bilic spent on Grady and Grant in the summer. I bet my bottom dollar we'd be in the shake up rather than dead and buried...

But it is what it is.

As far as next season goes...

I think we could do a lot worse than keeping Allardyce around as he's shown he knows what it takes to get results and build a proper team. He's been promoted from the Championship before and his West Ham side that he got promoted last time he managed in the Championship outscored our promoted team last year. However, he will only stick around if we've got some cash because he's no mug. He knows we will not get promoted with the likes of Sawyers and Livermore plodding around the middle of the park. He's a proper coach who knows what it takes to get results.

However, unlike Josh, I don't think the club will back him because I don't think we've got a pot to p*ss in...

I think he will walk. We will get a young coach who is simply happy to have a chance at Championship level and therefore happy with no money. Success will depend upon blind luck if we happen to uncover a coach who is a gem. Potentially we could go into freefall if we go for someone like Appleton in...

So personally, I'd be in favour of keeping and backing Big Sam. I think he would get us promoted if he could acquire 4-5 players from sales of Johnstone and Pereira. I don't think it will happen though and fear freefall...

Stairs · 03-04-2021, 22:32

I won’t be unhappy if Big Sam stayed but I can’t help but feel it is time for yet another rebuild (new manager and a squad refresh).
Sam knows how to build a team and no doubt we will be competitive next season but it’s what happens then. Maybe too far away to worry.....

BaggieSteve · 04-04-2021, 10:12

(03-04-2021, 22:32)Stairs Wrote: I won’t be unhappy if Big Sam stayed but I can’t help but feel it is time for yet another rebuild (new manager and a squad refresh).
Sam knows how to build a team and no doubt we will be competitive next season but it’s what happens then. Maybe too far away to worry.....

Stairs, I share your view on this. If Allardyce stays, then so be it; there is an, understandable, desperate urge to get back into the Premier League in one season and Allardyce is seen as the guy to do this. It may happen but, if we do achieve that, I don’t see what will be different when we’re back in the EPL in 12+ months time. We will have lost our current loan players and, most likely Pereira and Johnstone together with anyone who has had a half decent season this year. We’ll be back to signing slightly passed it pros and hoping for another clutch of loans. I’d rather see us start to rebuild the playing staff by bringing through some of the young players, combined with our more experienced pros. This may happen under Allardyce but he doesn’t show any great enthusiasm for such an approach- I think his preference is to bring players in rather than develop.
For all our speculation and debate, however, I can’t help thinking that the ownership of the club will have a greater impact than the immediate appointment of the manager

Alouion · 04-04-2021, 13:29

Agree that his record is very poor but would Klopp have done better?
The players appear to like playing for him and are miles better than the outfit that wheezed over the line to get promotion last year.
Gallagher, Bartley, Furlong, O'Shea and Ajayi have upped their game of late. He has given them belief that they belong in the league.
Agreed we will lose our star players. We should hold out for a major sum for Pereira if Freakish (sorry s/be Grealish but prefer autocorrect version) is worth £100m.
Because of his pedigree I think he will attract high quality loan signings to us and we already have the nucleus of a decent team to go for promotion.
Alec Ferguson was reviled after his first season. I would like to see the same guy stick around a bit. Look where changing the manager every year has got us.

baggietrousers · 04-04-2021, 16:03

I'm not an Allardyce fan, never have been, but you can not deny that since he got his loan signings in there has been an improvement, especially Yokuslu who has been awesome.
I wouldn't want to replace big Sam with someone like Wilder or even McInnes, but would go for a more pro active younger coach. That said, if Allardyce could get the team to play like they did yesterday every week, or even most weeks, then maybe he would be the right choice for next season, but he'll have to do it without most of that team.

Alouion · 04-04-2021, 16:44

Some of team, Baggie, plus some subs if he can offload. Question can he use the proceeds wisely and encourage great loan signings like Yokuslu next season. I rather think he can.
I want more managerial continuity at the club. He's spent his career in the PL and should be anxious to get back. Always assuming he doesn't work a miracle in the meantime!

hibeejim21 · 04-04-2021, 17:27

17 matches, 14 points, 3 wins, 5 draws, 9 defeats, 15 goals for, 33 goals against and 0.82 points per game.

I didn't realise that Big Spams record was that poor.