[wba1978]

At least Bilic got the centre back pairing selection right. Ivanovic and Hegazi were ideal for defending against Wood and Barnes.
Whether they will be effective against a faster attack is yet to be seen, but Ivanovic really impressed me, considering I said on here his experience and positioning won't make up for his lack of pace. I was happy to be proven wrong.
Unfortunately everything else seemed a bit timid and slow, like no-one wanted to risk losing to win.
Oh well, on to the next one...

---

Also noticed the other day the Just Giving page is now operational, so all those that wanted to donate to keep the site running can now do so

[Salopbaggie]

When you can only get a pint (I spotted the typo and left it because i thought how apt it was) against a team who have not got even 1 point on the board, at home and cannot break them down it is a little worrying.

I think the most concerning thing for me at present is how ordinary Pereria and Diangana look at this level, I think that is where many of us were pinning our hopes. I can only see two explanations, 1.) that the Championship like the Prem has players not of the quality to be playing in it, so those two looked exceptional against them or 2.) my hope and favourite is that both of them have had their permission to 'just go and play' removed. We are not seeing the fast crisp pass and movement we saw for much of last season, we appear at the moment to be playing a type of Pullis ball, 'why put three passes going forward together when you can go 1 forward, 3 sideways and 7 backwards?' I lost count of the number of times we had the ball approaching their box and the move ended with a clearance from Johnston. On the positives I think this squad is so much better than the one Big Dave had and has a lot of potential, but I still think we have a lot of players who you have to say, just go play and lets face it we signed them for exactly that, to just go play. If we wanted players who were as good defending as they are in attack we brought in the wrong players. It is an offensive team and has to be used that way or I don't know about pride of the Midlands, we will soon be laughing stock of the Midlands

We have to stop being so afraid of teams and do what we do, then if we lose, we lose but at least we lose playing our way and not this mommy I'm scared way of playing football.

[Blue Baggie]

When you can only get a pint (I spotted the typo and left it because i thought how apt it was) against a team who have not got even 1 point on the board, at home and cannot break them down it is a little worrying.

I think the most concerning thing for me at present is how ordinary Pereria and Diangana look at this level,  I think that is where many of us were pinning our hopes.  I can only see two explanations, 1.) that the Championship like the Prem has players not of the quality to be playing in it, so those two looked exceptional against them or 2.) my hope and favourite is that both of them have had their permission to 'just go and play' removed.  We are not seeing the fast crisp pass and movement we saw for much of last season, we appear at the moment to be playing a type of Pullis ball, 'why put three passes going forward together when you can go 1 forward, 3 sideways and 7 backwards?'   I lost count of the number of times we had the ball approaching their box and the move ended with a clearance from Johnston.  On the positives I think this squad is so much better than the one Big Dave had and has a lot of potential,  but I still think we have a lot of players who you have to say, just go play and lets face it we signed them for exactly that, to just go play.  If we wanted players who were as good defending as they are in attack we brought in the wrong players.  It is an offensive team and has to be used that way or I don't know about pride of the Midlands, we will soon be laughing stock of the Midlands

We have to stop being so afraid of teams and do what we do, then if we lose, we lose but at least we lose playing our way and not this mommy I'm scared way of playing football.

Agree 100% the performance is sometimes more important then the result. Am I bothered if we go down fighting and playing attractive football. Not really - being the only self sustainable club in the PL all we can ask is we give our best.

[Lady Jane]

Obviously I know nothing about football, but I wasn’t disappointed with the performance last night. Yes we could have speeded things up more , but in my opinion we certainly weren’t outplayed. What are some of you on here expecting ? Did you think by now we would be in the top half of the table? I honestly believed we would struggle this season no matter what. Every point is a bonus. It may not be, but so long as we play reasonably attractive football, which I thought we did last night, considering some of the crap I’ve watched over fairly recently times, I will be happy.

[Arcane Astral Aeons]

just thought i would throw this out there
did anyone actually pay to watch it?

[Slick_Footwork]

just thought i would throw this out there
did anyone actually pay to watch it?

I did, despite the fact I think it's a joke to charge in this climate when we're encouraged to stay at home so there's little else to do.

I watched dodgy foreign streams of the other PPV games. But the streams were hit and miss so for ours I just wanted to watch properly.

However in hindsight, scratting around for a decent stream and closing a load of dodgy pop ups probably would've livened the afternoon up a bit given the dross that was served up on the pitch.

[Zinman]

Allardyce, seriously? Presumably with Pulis as his no.2. Rename The Hawthorns as Jurassic Park while we’re at it

At least our crowds wouldn’t drop this time.

I would prefer continuing to build a young, attack minded team with potential rather that revert to a team of 6 foot plus aging cloggers even if that meant relegation. In fact I’d prefer being forced to watch Crossroads on a never ending loop while being prodded with a red hot poker than going back to those days.

[Slick_Footwork]

Obviously I know nothing about football, but I wasn’t disappointed with the performance last night. Yes we could have speeded things up more , but in my opinion we certainly weren’t outplayed. What are some of you on here expecting ? Did you think by now we would be in the top half of the table? I honestly believed we would struggle this season no matter what. Every point is a bonus. It may not be, but so long as we play reasonably attractive football, which I thought we did last night, considering some of the crap I’ve watched over fairly recently times, I will be happy.

I didn't expect us to be top half. I expected before the season started that we might finish 16-17th. That expectation changed to 20th after seeing our opening games of the season and the fact we were a soft touch and Bilic decided to start games with a formation that was alien to the players because of fear. We didn't lay a glove on Leicester or Southampton and didn't have the balls to see off Chelsea after being 3-0 up. It didn't help that we were camped in our own half all 2nd period waiting to concede.

That said, despite expecting us to finish rock bottom, I still harbour hopes of 17th and survival...

BUT in order to finish 17th, you have to beat sides like Burnley who were missing their captain and other key players. With that in mind, I expected the team to TRY to win. I think it's fair to expect a modicum of effort and bravery in home ties against sides around you. Actually taking a chance to commit an extra man forward occasionally or trying something to change the game.

Unfortunately I didn't see that. I didn't see the desire to win or take the game by the scruff of the neck. What I saw was a desire to always play the 'safe' ball going side to side or backwards when there was the opportunity to carry it forward. The team played with fear and it wasn't a shock, because it was obvious even from last season that this team lack guts. We needed an injection of guts and personality and while Ivanovic has that in droves, we needed 2 or 3 winners added to the mix.

I seriously question Bilic for not being able to see it. All summer he made a point of Krovinovic being the 'top target' and let's face it, he didn't really excel in the Championship. Apparently he makes others around him better, well I've yet to see that in the 2 games he has played so far. He might be a fantastic personality off the pitch, but he certainly isn't the character we were desperate for in midfield.

The frustration of this lack of guts coupled with the fact we keep making basic mistakes made it an unacceptable performance in my eyes. How many free kicks is Pereira allowed to float straight into the goalkeeper's arms before he's hauled off? The answer is infinite and Bilic obviously didn't tell him to stop doing it. How can Hegazi fail to head the ball before it bounces? Letting it bounce resulted in both of Burnley's chances, which thankfully they missed. I mean this is stuff you learn playing Sunday football...

It's a shame because Gallagher, Livermore and Ivanovic looked good. The problem is they are carrying too many luxury players who don't do a lot when the going gets tough, which we saw at the tail end of last season. The problem is, Bilic doesn't have a plan B, i.e. introducing Ajayi and trying to play long. It's just the same old same old even when it's blatantly obvious that it's failing.

---

Allardyce, seriously? Presumably with Pulis as his no.2. Rename The Hawthorns as Jurassic Park while we’re at it

At least our crowds wouldn’t drop this time.

I would prefer continuing to build a young, attack minded team with potential rather that revert to a team of 6 foot plus aging cloggers even if that meant relegation. In fact I’d prefer being forced to watch Crossroads on a never ending loop while being prodded with a red hot poker than going back to those days.

You must be seeing something that I'm not in this team.

What I see is a team that could've played all night at Southampton and not scored. Could've played all night yesterday and not scored. Lowest possession in the league, no bottle, no plan B.

This attack minded team have failed to score in 3 of 5 games. In 2 of them, we didn't have a meaningful effort on goal.

Yes... they are young. But I've never understood being ageist in football. I'd rather have a bunch of 30 year olds who stand up and be counted than a bunch of 20 year old wimps who play with fear...

The irony is Bilic has brought in a 36 year old and his performance yesterday was the best we have seen this season...

IMO we could've done with a few more like him...

Yes, it's all good having flair players. But they need an enforcer or 2 around them to earn the right to play. What's the point having 4-5 luxury players with 30% possession?

So yes, unless Bilic wakes up and smells the coffee, I fully believe we need an 'Allardyce type' manager to stay up. Someone that can actually organise and motivate this set of laid back wimps.

Don't really see the comparison with Allardyce and Pulis either. Again, maybe I'm missing something or have a bad memory but I remember him having decent footballing teams with flair players. His Bolton team played some cracking football with Jay Jay Okocha, Djorkaeff, Stelios and loads of good footballers. His Blackburn side were mid table and look where they ended up after they got rid. He did a good job with Everton. Can't remember any evidence at all of him only picking 6 footers at all. The players his teams were built around - Tugay, Okocha, Joe Cole - were all short footballing midfielders. He's always selected flair players but had a blend of enforcers around them. Campo and Okocha, for example.

Hell, he's the only manager in history to get performances out of Ravel Morrison!

Not saying he is the answer, but I'd rather have a manager who can see the wood from the trees and understand you build flair on top of guts. Bilic doesn't seem to understand the requirements for 'bottle' at this level.

[drewks]

Obviously I know nothing about football, but I wasn’t disappointed with the performance last night. Yes we could have speeded things up more , but in my opinion we certainly weren’t outplayed. What are some of you on here expecting ? Did you think by now we would be in the top half of the table? I honestly believed we would struggle this season no matter what. Every point is a bonus. It may not be, but so long as we play reasonably attractive football, which I thought we did last night, considering some of the crap I’ve watched over fairly recently times, I will be happy.

I didn't expect us to be top half. I expected before the season started that we might finish 16-17th. That expectation changed to 20th after seeing our opening games of the season and the fact we were a soft touch and Bilic decided to start games with a formation that was alien to the players because of fear. We didn't lay a glove on Leicester or Southampton and didn't have the balls to see off Chelsea after being 3-0 up. It didn't help that we were camped in our own half all 2nd period waiting to concede.

That said, despite expecting us to finish rock bottom, I still harbour hopes of 17th and survival...

BUT in order to finish 17th, you have to beat sides like Burnley who were missing their captain and other key players. With that in mind, I expected the team to TRY to win. I think it's fair to expect a modicum of effort and bravery in home ties against sides around you. Actually taking a chance to commit an extra man forward occasionally or trying something to change the game.

Unfortunately I didn't see that. I didn't see the desire to win or take the game by the scruff of the neck. What I saw was a desire to always play the 'safe' ball going side to side or backwards when there was the opportunity to carry it forward. The team played with fear and it wasn't a shock, because it was obvious even from last season that this team lack guts. We needed an injection of guts and personality and while Ivanovic has that in droves, we needed 2 or 3 winners added to the mix.

I seriously question Bilic for not being able to see it. All summer he made a point of Krovinovic being the 'top target' and let's face it, he didn't really excel in the Championship. Apparently he makes others around him better, well I've yet to see that in the 2 games he has played so far. He might be a fantastic personality off the pitch, but he certainly isn't the character we were desperate for in midfield.

The frustration of this lack of guts coupled with the fact we keep making basic mistakes made it an unacceptable performance in my eyes. How many free kicks is Pereira allowed to float straight into the goalkeeper's arms before he's hauled off? The answer is infinite and Bilic obviously didn't tell him to stop doing it.  How can Hegazi fail to head the ball before it bounces? Letting it bounce resulted in both of Burnley's chances, which thankfully they missed. I mean this is stuff you learn playing Sunday football...

It's a shame because Gallagher, Livermore and Ivanovic looked good. The problem is they are carrying too many luxury players who don't do a lot when the going gets tough, which we saw at the tail end of last season. The problem is, Bilic doesn't have a plan B, i.e. introducing Ajayi and trying to play long. It's just the same old same old even when it's blatantly obvious that it's failing.

---

Allardyce, seriously? Presumably with Pulis as his no.2. Rename The Hawthorns as Jurassic Park while we’re at it

At least our crowds wouldn’t drop this time.

I would prefer continuing to build a young, attack minded team with potential rather that revert to a team of 6 foot plus aging cloggers even if that meant relegation. In fact I’d prefer being forced to watch Crossroads on a never ending loop while being prodded with a red hot poker than going back to those days.

You must be seeing something that I'm not in this team.

What I see is a team that could've played all night at Southampton and not scored. Could've played all night yesterday and not scored. Lowest possession in the league, no bottle, no plan B.

This attack minded team have failed to score in 3 of 5 games. In 2 of them, we didn't have a meaningful effort on goal.

Yes... they are young. But I've never understood being ageist in football. I'd rather have a bunch of 30 year olds who stand up and be counted than a bunch of 20 year old wimps who play with fear...

The irony is Bilic has brought in a 36 year old and his performance yesterday was the best we have seen this season...

IMO we could've done with a few more like him...

Yes, it's all good having flair players. But they need an enforcer or 2 around them to earn the right to play. What's the point having 4-5 luxury players with 30% possession?

So yes, unless Bilic wakes up and smells the coffee, I fully believe we need an 'Allardyce type' manager to stay up. Someone that can actually organise and motivate this set of laid back wimps.

Don't really see the comparison with Allardyce and Pulis either. Again, maybe I'm missing something or have a bad memory but I remember him having decent footballing teams with flair players. His Bolton team played some cracking football with Jay Jay Okocha, Djorkaeff, Stelios and loads of good footballers. His Blackburn side were mid table and look where they ended up after they got rid. He did a good job with Everton. Can't remember any evidence at all of him only picking 6 footers at all.  The players his teams were built around - Tugay, Okocha, Joe Cole - were all short footballing midfielders. He's always selected flair players but had a blend of enforcers around them. Campo and Okocha, for example.

Hell, he's the only manager in history to get performances out of Ravel Morrison!

Not saying he is the answer, but I'd rather have a manager who can see the wood from the trees and understand you build flair on top of guts. Bilic doesn't seem to understand the requirements for 'bottle' at this level.

Slick, that's a great, thought provoking post, and I've got to admit that IMHO it's more or less spot on - and makes me rethink my view of SB.
I just hope that HE is as aware as you - and I'm not being sarcastic!

[Zinman]

Well , Slick, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. My memory of Allardyce is watching his team of giants bore people into submission - I can recall a couple of occasions where I came away from the Hawthorns thinking that at least I didn’t have to watch that every week. Yes, his Bolton side did have a flair player but his role seemed to be to get on the end of whatever bounced off the big lump up front when the ball was hooked up to him. As to young players , yes I do think they’re important as they do at least offer the chance of an eventual sale at a profit that can be reinvested - having a team of 30+ journeymen a la Pulis is a recipe for disaster. Ivanovic on a 1 year deal makes sense, but for a club of Albion’s stature, developing young talent is essential to our future.
I never want to go back to the dark days of Pulisball - the only manager to stop me going to games. And yes, I put Allardyce in the same category as Pulis based on my experience of watching his teams.