[Dancingwilldoit]

We started well then fell to a sucker punch with a dodgy pen and a ref that couldn't do enough for them.
To be honest when we went 3 down I thought that was it. Just shows how wrong you can be.
Second half we ran at them and pushed them back, they didnt like it. Denton scored a beaut from a pin point cross off Bradley. Their defence just stood there. Game on. when the second went in the fans smelled blood. Their keeper was a nutter. He just wound the fans up with unpunished time wasting then wondered why he got abuse. By the time he was booked he should have been off well before but once again weak refereeing didnt go our way.
Thought Shaw was excellent, never stopped running.
When the 3rd went in there was pandemonium. Lunatics on the pitch and one giving the keeper a mouthful. That'll cost us. A minute later Burton lumps one of their players gives away a pen. Step up Evans with the biggest pair of hands (they looked enormous) and saves.
That has to be the best feeling in the ground for years and years, thoroughly deserved against 13 players.
The turning point?

[SaltergateBorn]

I bought my ticket over the internet a few days ago, only to be told by my dearly beloved yesterday that she had ‘made arrangements’ for the day that required my presence for the major part of it. It was vitally important that I be there – she said – to the extent that World War III, 4 of the 10 plagues of Egypt and numerous other meteorological and metaphysical catastrophes would occur if I was not. I protested that I had already bought my ticket, but to no avail.

After some protracted and heated negotiation, we agreed on a compromise. On the basis that I had already bought my ticket and that my presence was not required for the ENTIRE day - I said - I would just go and watch half the game (you can probably guess where this is going, can`t you) and then return home to fulfil my familial duties as befits a devoted and considerate husband of 45 years.

So I only saw the first half.

May I suggest that those of a nervous and sensitive disposition look away now, as I may be unable to refrain from using language that they would find offensive and emotionally disturbing; I`ll try, but I can`t promise.

I duly endured the first half and left the ground feeling thoroughly depressed. Our defence was sliced open time and time again and, yet again, we showed no creativity up front. I did, admittedly, fear the worst when I found out that Kiwomya wasn`t playing and that neither was Denton with Amantchi alongside him, as I hoped would be the case. I`m an optimistic soul, though, so hope had overcome expectation and anyway I`d already bought my ticket (see above). As I drove back home down the M1, however, I was resigned to the fact that after today another relegation was almost certain.

If anything interesting happened in the second half, could somebody please let me know. It would be appreciated if they could do it quickly, as I may well soon be taken into custody and I`m not sure whether I`ll be allowed internet access. I`m considering various pleas in mitigation – temporary insanity is a possibility, but justifiable homicide is probably a better bet – but really don`t know how any of them will play with the jury. If they`re football fans, they`ll understand; if not.........

Aaaaaaargh!!!!!!!

[themaclad]

Dancing
Similar to us at Villa last minute penalty for them missed 12 game decent run, the fact you've come back from 3 down suggests a dressing room that's together
Good luck

[SaltergateBorn]

I`m in more serious mode now. I`ve calmed down a bit.

I agree with you, Mac. Any team that can come back from 3 down at half-time has got guts and good team-spirit; I find it hard to believe that any team with that sort of spirit, no matter what their shortcomings, will get relegated. That inspires no end of confidence in me.

I`m not with you in several respects though, Dancing. You talk about ‘weak refereeing’, but to me for any woman to take on the refereeing of a men`s professional game shows strength of character for a start (I was going to say it takes ‘balls’, but that`s almost certainly inappropriate in the circumstances) and to give a penalty against us in those circumstances even more so. As I`ve already said I wasn`t there for the second half so didn`t see the incident, but just think about it; you`re giving a penalty in the final seconds against a home side that`s just clawed its way back from 3-0 down with the crowd, as you say, in pandemonium. Is that weak refereeing? I really don`t think so.

In the 45 minutes that I saw, I thought she had a decent game. She let the game flow (not a single free-kick given in the first ten minutes) and as far as the ‘dodgy pen’ is concerned I really don`t know where you`re coming from. It was a complete no-brainer as far as I`m concerned; in fact, Burton was lucky to get away with a yellow card rather than red. The same goes for the ‘foul’ by Hollis and the free kick they wasted. From my angle I couldn`t see whether it was a foul or not, but if it was it was borderline red / yellow.

At half-time we were where we deserved to be; nothing to do with ‘weak refereeing’ or ‘dodgy pens’. However, it seems that things were different in the second half.

Don`t get me started – again.

[Dancingwilldoit]

SGB, the fact it was a woman is irrelevant. It was the referee of the game. I thought the first pen was dodgy and the second should never have been. The ref didnt see it, it was the linesman. What he obviously didnt say was that the Ebbsfleet player involved had blatantly stopped Burton trying to release the ball quickly and that should have been a foul to us. The fact Burton reacted the way he did was just stupid and he deserved the red card but it was never ever a penalty shout as Burton had the ball in his hands.
The "ref" missed Denton being held in a bear crush in the area that everybody else in the ground saw then also managed to miss Shaw being taken out in one incident and even though it was a clear trip in the second, he carried on going and got nothing. Sorry but the ref and linesman on the East side were shocking.

Just a quick edit, one of the best linespersons I have seen at the Proact was a woman. She got every call right and earned the respect of everybody that day. The point is that if a person of either sex is up to the job then they should be allowed to do it. If they do it it well then no issue with me. Yesterday showed somebody out of depth and weak. The Ebbsfleet keeper and a couple of players were winding the kop up by having a go at them not just once but repeatedly. They should have been carded and nipped it in the bud. When she did card him the first thing he did was turn round and remonstrated with the kop wasting even more time. The ref just ignored it. The resulting crowd invasion when the third went in was a result of the weakness of the ref.

---

This followed our third goal https://twitter.com/meizsam/status/1081619067897896962

[SaltergateBorn]

I wasn`t suggesting for a minute, Dancing, that there was anything sexist in what you thought about the ref yesterday; sorry if I gave that impression. I just thought you were being a bit hard on her.

For the 45 minutes I saw, I thought she had a decent game and was in fact one of the better refs I`ve seen at the Proact this season - although I accept that that`s a pretty low bar; I`ve seen one or two shockers.

I can`t argue at all with anything you say about the second half, cos I didn`t see it. (You keep making me say that, don`t you. I reckon you`re doing it on purpose, you bugger.)

[Devongone]

There is no excuse for racial abuse, however the abused person has behaved. It does, however, have to be noted that there have been several incidents this season involving Nathan Ashmore of Ebbsfleet and crowds. Now it may have a bit to do with the fact that a lower percentage of black players become keepers than outfield players, so he genuinely becomes the object upon which those with spleen do actually vent it, but it could also be the case that he uses what he knows will happen if he engages in some winding-up. But this incident should be looked into in the light of other incidents involving Ebbsfleet, AND the other incidents which are starting to occur involving Chesterfield.

Referees in general are hung our to dry by football. They either appear weak and inconsistent, or inflexible and petty. Certainly some do think themselves more of an attraction than the game ........ but such is life. That's people. If the game were played in the proper spirit no one would notice whether the referee was a man or a woman ....... but money and the fans kill the tinkerbell flame that is the proper spirit. Football is a game in which thuggery and cheating are rife. Referees should be respected irrespective of whether they earn it by getting every decision right during the game. Just being there speaks volumes for them. Imagine the courage it would take for a black gay woman to take charge of a feisty National League game in front of 4 - 5,000 screaming fans. Imagine keeping your head and making on-the-spot decisions in that situation. We need the world to turn a whole lot more and football to turn over a new leaf. It isn't the refs - it's the game.

I'm sorry Dancing, but the crowd is not an amorphous mindless mass whose behaviour is controlled by random actions on a pitch fifty yards away. If it were, then you would have been on the pitch too! These are self-indulgent people looking for reasons to excuse themselves from the norms of human behaviour. They want to be the centre of attention. Don't excuse them! If the ref is Martin Atkinson or a fifteen year old girl should make no difference at all! The pitch invaders are individuals who all knew what they were doing was wrong in ANY circumstance. CHOP OFF THEIR GOOLIES!

[Dancingwilldoit]

There is no excuse for racial abuse, however the abused person has behaved. It does, however, have to be noted that there have been several incidents this season involving Nathan Ashmore of Ebbsfleet and crowds. Now it may have a bit to do with the fact that a lower percentage of black players become keepers than outfield players, so he genuinely becomes the object upon which those with spleen do actually vent it, but it could also be the case that he uses what he knows will happen if he engages in some winding-up. But this incident should be looked into in the light of other incidents involving Ebbsfleet, AND the other incidents which are starting to occur involving Chesterfield.

Referees in general are hung our to dry by football. They either appear weak and inconsistent, or inflexible and petty. Certainly some do think themselves more of an attraction than the game ........ but such is life. That's people. If the game were played in the proper spirit no one would notice whether the referee was a man or a woman ....... but money and the fans kill the tinkerbell flame that is the proper spirit. Football is a game in which thuggery and cheating are rife. Referees should be respected irrespective of whether they earn it by getting every decision right during the game. Just being there speaks volumes for them. Imagine the courage it would take for a black gay woman to take charge of a feisty National League game in front of 4 - 5,000 screaming fans. Imagine keeping your head and making on-the-spot decisions in that situation. We need the world to turn a whole lot more and football to turn over a new leaf. It isn't the refs - it's the game.

I'm sorry Dancing, but the crowd is not an amorphous mindless mass whose behaviour is controlled by random actions on a pitch fifty yards away. If it were, then you would have been on the pitch too! These are self-indulgent people looking for reasons to excuse themselves from the norms of human behaviour. They want to be the centre of attention. Don't excuse them! If the ref is Martin Atkinson or a fifteen year old girl should make no difference at all! The pitch invaders are individuals who all knew what they were doing was wrong in ANY circumstance. CHOP OFF THEIR GOOLIES!

Dev, In no way did or do I excuse them, they were lunatics and deserve any ban they get. Ashmore was to blame for inciting the fans who were all lined up against the hoardings. The stewards did nothing to get the fans back in their seats and it was obvious to the rest of the crowd what would happen if we scored the third. We did and the rest is now history.
The fans were chanting "You fat Bastard" I didnt hear any racial abuse and both BJW and I think it was Reid (both Black) were there trying to calm things down and they showed no reaction and Reid even seemed to encourage the fans.
Its so easy for somebody to play the race card and try to cover for his own shortcomings. Ashmore played it when it suited. He is a fat bastard as well.

[Devongone]

And you demonstrate exactly why on Bob's they found it acceptable to describe Ricky German as a "lazy, fat bastard".

They think it is okay to direct any open insult at a black man so long as they omit the word nggr and avoid the full Ron Atkinson. On Bob's they went after Ricky G, Gozie Ugwu, JBW .......; there's guy on there who nobody challenged, who thought it okay to deliberately and regularly turn Zavon Hines into Zavron (would he do that to a white player, mock his name in every single post)?), they started out after Kiwomya and then ......... their colour is the common thread; if you are a black player and you display the slightest weakness in your game there ARE still fans who will do everything to disparage and dehumanise you. And there are others who will defend the abusers to the death because they've displayed just enough intelligence to avoid using the actual words, "you black bastard!"

Nathan Ashmore may well have a chip the size of the crooked spire on his ample shoulder (and I can even sympathise with him on that!), but his behaviour should be examined and if he's in the wrong then Ebbsfleet taken to task too for not doing anything about it (because they KNOW the truth). If he is the cause or a cause it is bad for the game and for all players and people of colour. BUT he is on the pitch, his abusers aren't, and he can't MAKE anyone react. Their actions come from something within themselves. And whether they are acting or reacting is essentially irrelevant. If they went to see a band and the black lead singer said or did something that they didn't like, would they think of climbing on stage and attacking him? NO. So it is something deep within them which causes it to happen and there's something about the game of football that makes them think that their behaviour has some level of appropriateness.

Abuse isn't really okay in real life outside sport, but when it is directed at people who also find themselves victims of it outside the field of play then we are unavoidably treading dangerous ground.

The strange thing about the race card is, if it exists, then surely society plays it every day against black people and yet I've never heard a black person describe it as "the race card". Outside of Cheltenham, Newton Abbot and Ascot, IMO there's no such thing!

[Dancingwilldoit]

Dev, if I took offence at everything I have been called in life I would either be serving concurrent life sentences or would be a millionaire having retired years ago on court awards for defamation.

I have witnessed many footballers, coaches managers and trainers receiving the "fat bastard" chant the vast majority of which are white.
Is it ok to call Steve Evans a fat bastard then take offence because the same thing is said to black player or do you propose to ban all chanting at football games?
If any player is offended by such chants then they are in the wrong game. They should go and take up bowls or croquet.

Yes racism and racist chants are totally unforgivable and should be punished but lets not get carried away because a black player gets a chant of "you fat bastard".
The point is he was fat and his actions on the day made me call him a time wasting bastard. Sorry if you dont like it but I really couldn't care less about the colour of his skin. If anybody behaves the way he did on Saturday afternoon then I reserve the right to call him whatever I want. I understand he got called a "nonce" a few weeks back.
Has it really come to the point that we cant react and shout anything to a player, linesman or ref for fear of upsetting them?
The next time a certain England player takes to the field will the opposition fans be able to chant "junkie" everytime he gets the ball or do they have to think first oh my goodness no we cant say that it might sound like monkey?
Skin colour is irrelevant its all about how something is construed.