[Dancingwilldoit]

So why exactly does the EU need us? Do they need our steel, our cars, our gas, our oil, our farm produce? They might struggle for a while without our funding but I'm sure they will get over it. We on the other hand will take decades to get over it. We need their farm produce because we aren't self sufficient, we need Eastern EU workers to work in health care, hotels, restaurants etc because nobody in this country other than students wants to do it. We even need their sunshine because our weather is so crap!

The Ireland border issue is going to take years and years to sort, they cant even agree on forming and keeping a government for gods sake. It doesn't matter what the EU wants, a couple of IRA bombs on mainland Europe will soon change their minds and we will be back to square 1.

A hard Brexit is just bad news for everybody and when I see clowns like Reece Mogg pushing for it, I just know its a bad thing.

[bluepooch]

Eastern EU workers are suppressing wages Dancing ,no wonder Wagamamas can pay below minimum wage its still more than they would earn in their own country.Business owners are bound to want open borders so they can make their massive profits out of cheap foreign labour .

[Dancingwilldoit]

I'd never heard of Wagamamas until the other day. Like I said in my last post, people born in the UK just don't want it. They aren't exactly queuing up for jobs that pay minimum wages. They would rather claim benefits. Half the country seems to think they are owed a living.

In the USA they introduced a very high minimum wage. The result was price increases of 50% where there was a high labour content like restaurants and service industries. The same will happen here sooner or later. It resulted in loads of restaurants closing down in America because people wouldn't pay the higher prices so unemployment went up.

There isn't a magic wand that can be waved and hey ho we are out of the EU and we wont be effected because we can sell UK product elsewhere in the world, it just aint going to happen. Have you noticed just how quiet Farage has been since he claimed he single handedly took us out of the EU? Maybe he now realises just what a mess he has created. But never mind he will be getting his EU pension until he dies - the hypocrite.

[Devongone]

We WOULD sell to the EU ....... for one. It would be slightly less advantageous that's all ...... if Brexit ever happens, which is a giant IF anyway. But we are a net-importer aren't we? Our cost of living will rise in some areas, but you think they won't want to sell us the stuff their largely inefficient farmers produce?

You choose your old-fashioned industries very carefully Dancing ......... you don't mention sectors in which Britain isn't only a European leader, but a global leader. Why do you think Paris and Frankfurt are trying to entrap our financial sector? We are way ahead of the rest of Europe in new technology, we don't only need their scientists, they need the opportunities our innovation and research industries provide. They desperately need our arms industry and our arms capability, they need to benefit from our defence expenditure and our intelligence networks. They need to benefit from our arts and cultural scene attracting all industries from around the world to set up bases here. They need us because our language has come to dominate global trade and provides us with opportunities right across the world. Project EU is barely functioning properly now if you look at the loser nations who have to be bailed out to keep their heads above the Med'. They are negotiating from fear, that's why everything has to become a negative. They might be RIGHT! But if Brexit were to happen and it did go tits, the effects wouldn't only be seen in Britain.

The EU needs us for lots of the stuff I dislike about us. And they don't seem to like us as much as I like them. It's only their ruling class I want to overthrow ......... It is a bloated oligarchy of the nouveau-riche. I don't fear Brexit for our trading future, but its potential effects on education, research, co-operation and human understanding do frighten me. Global migration is building walls not only in Trump's America, but in India and Hungary and Macedonia ........... I don't want us to put our wagons in a circle - I want us to look outwards, but bureaucratic checkpoint charlies at the edges of an undemocratic monopoly-capitalist European superstate can't be the limits of our vision.

But in the end my view is as irrelevant as yours. Ain't happening, not sure how ....... yet. But we're staying and we'll make a fcku-pu of doing it too. Bremain comes home to roost.

[hibeejim21]

For me its the move towards casualisation, zero hour contracts, and the hiring of "self employed" workers which is really driving the drop in wages rather than EU migrants, and its no coincidence this goes hand in hand with the demise of organised trade unions and yes even EU legislation (of which the UK has more opt outs than you can shake a stick at)

Going by may's recent speech she wants 'opt in's' now while we have leave one of the biggest trade bloc's in the world behind....and trump prepares for a trade war.

The british working class has been sold down the river but they won't ever direct their anger where it rightfully belongs. It's weird.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Finance isn't an industry Dev. Industry may be old fashioned but it still makes the world go round. No industry = no financiers because they have nothing to make money on. The City of London will lose jobs no doubt but who wouldn't welcome less money grabbing bankers and money men?

[spireitematt]

Vince Cable said. "Nostalgia for a world where passports were blue, faces were white and the map was coloured imperial pink" had driven some older voters to Brexit. And it was their votes on one wet day in June which crushed the hopes and aspirations of young people for years to come,"

Pretty much called some of the 17.4 million people who voted racists.

[Dancingwilldoit]

I could answer but don't want to stir up a hornets nest. Matt he did use the word "some" which you transcribe as "all", you would make a good journalist.

[spireitematt]

I could answer but don't want to stir up a hornets nest. Matt he did use the word "some" which you transcribe as "all", you would make a good journalist.

Edited it.

Not everyone who voted Leave will be a racist but all racists more than likely voted Leave.

[St Charles Owl]

Vince Cable said. "Nostalgia for a world where passports were blue, faces were white and the map was coloured imperial pink" had driven some older voters to Brexit. And it was their votes on one wet day in June which crushed the hopes and aspirations of young people for years to come,"

Pretty much called some of the 17.4 million people who voted racists.

I think his sentiment is probably correct but his examples of what they wanted I think is wrong. How many times have we heard older generations say "It was better back in my day" or "It wasn't like this back in my day", that is what he is essentially referring to. Those statements are not necessarily racist.