[spireitematt]

Jim,
Its always the ones at the bottom of the chain that are made to suffer. The day I hear a politician of any party turn around and say "Sorry, we screwed up big style, but I will give 25% of my salary back until we turn things around again" even to hear a politician of any party say the first word - Sorry, would be a breath of fresh air.
Politicians are greedy money grabbing sewer rats. In South Yorkshire a Barnsey Labour MP (Jarvis) who doesn't want a South Yorkshire Mayor was/is actually standing for the roll. Best of all he was staying on as an MP because he believed he could do both full time jobs together? So with a combined salary well in excess of £100k he was smiling all the way to the bank. Labours NEC then ruled nobody could do both together, they probably foresaw the newspaper headlines.
Dan Jarvis is gutted - I bet he is.

Yeah,it isn't just EU politicians with their noses in the trough for sure. Look at how many MPs are consultants or advisors. Farage portrays himself as a friend of the fishing industry but today it was revealed he has only attended 1 out of 42 meetings at the euro parliament on fisheries, that snake will have the gall to take an EU pension as well.

British people now use buses run by RATP,trains run by abellio,bank with santander,shop for food in aldi..... and going to have blue passports made in france. This whole desire for isolationism is complete nonsense,absolute fantasia.

All politicians are on the gravy train. Don't understand why he still gets a seat on Question Time because he isn't an MP.

Everybody gets an EU pension if they have worked there. An MEP gets a salary and expenses of up to £415,000 a year while MEP assistants get £213,000 a year for their salary and expenses. A lot of the British MEPs use a loophole called "la clause anglaise". To pay their spouses and children from the MEP assistants allowances. Also MEPs are able to earn up to £91,000 a year in daily subsistence and general expenditure expenses without having to provide any receipts or proof of expenditure. Plus they get a subsistence allowance or per diem which is £258 paid in cash without any proof of expenditure, when MEPs sign an attendance register in Brussels or the Strasbourg seat of the parliament (similar to the House of Lords)

Makes you wonder if an MEP get's that. How much does a Commissioner get?

The reason why public services and our infrastructure is owned by European companies is the fault of a woman called Mrs T, who sold everything off. It's the reason why we don't have industry in this country.

The blue passport thing is false because we could have kept the passports blue, didn't need to change over to the red. To be honest does it really matter what colour it is?

As for the fish debate, yes its true the EU used to throw away and waste fish due to quotas but it was Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall who got the law changed by creating a petition and getting people to sign it.

[Devongone]

"Lose what ? We would be an equal partner in one of the worlds largest trading blocs."

Oh God Jim, you want me to believe the EU is a partnership of equals? How dumb do you think I am?

Ireland is so vehemently opposed to the UK leaving the EU because our departure will leave it marooned in the Irish Sea, trying to make its leprechaun-sized voice heard in the chambers of EU power. Brexit has brought their Taoseiach to prominence, they've been a net beneficiary of EU funding, but once we're gone only the slight danger posed by Northern Ireland will even keep them on the bankers' radar.

Scotland would apparently surrender the independence it deserves for rule from Germany and France. If England were out of the EU, Scotland applying for entry would be a suicide that luckily the Spanish would block. If Brexit and independence both happened Scotland would much better off to examine the Norwegian and Swiss models as a way forward. Jeez you sold your freedom once, don't do it again.

But none of this will happen. The EU clearly wants us to stay. The money we provide allows them to substitute cash for the actual day-to-day involvement of several of the apparently equal partners. A lot, if not a majority of our country might now cast their ballots in a different direction. Russia currently has La May riding a little higher in the waves, but she's still facing dissent in her own party and Labour is only a step from calling for another vote.

---

'Scotland, for instance, is massively Remain, to the extent that a good percentage of its population would support full independence and immediately vote to lose it within the EU.'



Lose what ? We would be an equal partner in one of the worlds largest trading blocs.
The economic cost to the UK of leaving the EU could be as high as a reduction of 10 per cent in average incomes by 2030. If Scotland, by becoming independent, can avoid that fate then you have a clear long-term economic gain right there.

But if you want to keep banging that particular drum about losing our independence,then remember there is more than one way to achieve it.
There is a path that could make an independent Scotland better off and keep its integrity as a nation, but it will likely involve some hard truths (the core of it could be EEA not EU via EFTA, outside customs union and probably agreeing to keep Faslane) 

Right now in England you are seeing what is happening when a leader prioritises pandering to dyed-in-the-wool fanatics - planning to go for a hard Brexit with no trade deal without even costing what the economic implications are - and thus policy is just a car crash. Its going to be the working class that pay for this too,not the likes of **** rees-mogg and boris.

I'm hoping if scotland attains her independence that we avoid these kind of mistakes.

---

Jim,
Its always the ones at the bottom of the chain that are made to suffer. The day I hear a politician of any party turn around and say "Sorry, we screwed up big style, but I will give 25% of my salary back until we turn things around again" even to hear a politician of any party say the first word - Sorry, would be a breath of fresh air.
Politicians are greedy money grabbing sewer rats. In South Yorkshire a Barnsey Labour MP (Jarvis) who doesn't want a South Yorkshire Mayor was/is actually standing for the roll. Best of all he was staying on as an MP because he believed he could do both full time jobs together? So with a combined salary well in excess of £100k he was smiling all the way to the bank. Labours NEC then ruled nobody could do both together, they probably foresaw the newspaper headlines.
Dan Jarvis is gutted - I bet he is.

Dan Jarvis withdrew from the Labour leadership contest because as a single dad he wanted to devote more time to his children. Hmmmmmm.

[hibeejim21]

"Oh God Jim, you want me to believe the EU is a partnership of equals? How dumb do you think I am?"


You think the UK is any better ? Westminster has not a clue about an equal Union, about team playing, absolutely no idea about consensual politics. Your society is built on the biggest guy is in charge,and the richest/poshest. 45 years of oil and gas revenue and we have nothing to show for it. I'll take my chances with europe - no offence.



"Ireland is so vehemently opposed to the UK leaving the EU because our departure will leave it marooned in the Irish Sea"


Irelands position has always been clear and supportive of the UKs decision to leave. However its not the EU that has left it in political and economic limbo with the border issue but the UK. If anything brexit is going to further integrate ireland into the EU (and maybe even irony of ironies northern ireland too) and their economy is doing quite nicely out of it currently.

[Devongone]

Absolutely agree Westminster hasn't a clue about an equal union either. The same class of people are in charge with much the same motivations ......... for Westminster read Brussels ........ read Strasbourg. If I was Scottish I'd vote for independence, and there's no way I'd give that up for some form of economic dependence.

Ireland has been as fully supportive of Brexit as the Pope has been of abortion on demand. Their every move has been designed to hinder it and I don't blame them. Sorry, but if Brexit happens they're due to become the EU's troublesome child chained to a convicted serial killer. Maybe the EU WILL react by pampering Ireland like crazy, but I think they're scared their future is in a padded cell.

The whole EU SAYS it supports the British people's right to decide. What it does and how it is constituted give the lie to their words.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Just to give this a kick up the arris.

So it seems we are determined to sail the good old ship "Rule Britannia" off the edge of the earth at the end of the year. The morons steering the ship are quickly lining their pockets with dosh whilst they can and everybody's attention is on Covid 19 and bloody statues. Cummings and Gove have their hands that deep in the till they are even thieving the EU fluff that's been there the last 30 odd years. Our PM's ( Bozo the clown) dad has applied for a French passport and fukced off to Greece whilst he can.

We have now decided we need multiple lorry parks (Farage's Garage's) to introduce customs checks at a huge cost to British industry but we have even more corruption in the placing of contracts that will line politicians pockets. The setting up and management will cost half of our current EU contribution so just think of all the money we will save - not. The population of Ashford are up in arms even though 60% of them voted leave. Serves you all right. Where the hell did they think the lorries would go? Dover is too bloody small and Ashford has an "International" rail terminal and station.
Our politicians or Cummings say they will need an extra 30k civil servants to process everything. More red tape (or red white and blue) than the EU could have ever dreamed of.
Did somebody say seamless transition? Oh the EU need us more than we need them? The pigeon is slowly coming home to roost. Prices will go through the roof and we will need an on site recycling plant at Ashford to handle all the waste fresh produce rotting on the backs of lorry's once our "British" customs and excise "take control".
The DUP have been royally DUPed. Remember "There will be no customs checks between NI and England", but now we need to build customs sheds and controls at all the ports sailing to NI and fill in the same red tape paperwork as goods from the EU.

Canada have said sod off to a trade deal.
The good old USA have got us by the bollocks, they have said come on in boys but hey you gotta have our dirty chicken and pork or else no deal and oh bye the bye, ditch Huawei or else. Any deal depends on Trump being in office so when Biden wins, the shit will really hit the fan. On the plus side we can now buy some bloody chocolate bar that nobody has heard of from Australia.

Its now that bad that staunch leavers are trying to blame remainers for all the crap!!! Even David Davies is back peddling on our "Oven Ready" deal. The thing is non of them noticed the turkey got out of the oven 2 years ago and said sod this for a game of soldiers.

Still on the plus side theres erm, erm, erm, Oh yes I forgot - we can get our Empire back ??????? Oh and we can stop all this immigration thingy. Of course that's after we have said that a couple of million of Hong Kongese are welcome here, just imagine all those yellow coloured people instead of white Europeans eh!

You really couldn't make it all up. We left the EU based on blatant lies and the bunch of con artists running the country are taking us up the garden path.

Saving the best till last. Our new Blue passports (actually black) are made by a French company and are printed in Poland. They will be subject to whatever controls the EU applies at their end and then ours. The thought of millions of UK passports held up at customs doesnt half bring a smile to my face.

[Devongone]

I'm all for relations with Europe. It's just that they are so predominantly anal, with so much bondage involved. Why do we always end up in that gimp mask?

If you are desperate to worry, focus on China. It's too much of a risk to let them mess with our mobile network, but it's apparently okay for them to be building what are the equivalent of nuclear bombs on our coast.

When we finally woke up to the Coronavirus we discovered the magic money tree. That money wasn't all ours you know, down the sofa in Downing Street. It certainly didn't come from the don't-give-shit-for-our-members EU. And even if we begged to stay in the EU now and they said yes, they wouldn't help. As part of the problem, or part of the solution, the EU is of passing relevance - it's the Old Kent Road on the Monopoly Board. We are 'ucked with a royal F, but nice M. Barnier is a peripheral player. TS Eliot got it wrong, the way the world ends is not with a bang or a whimper; it's with a sneeze.

[spireitematt]

I'm all for relations with Europe. It's just that they are so predominantly anal, with so much bondage involved. Why do we always end up in that gimp mask?

Well we all have to wear masks from the 24th if we go in shops now. It might come in handy.

[Devongone]

I'm all for relations with Europe. It's just that they are so predominantly anal, with so much bondage involved. Why do we always end up in that gimp mask?

Well we all have to wear masks from the 24th if we go in shops now. It might come in handy.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your gimp mask goes down in the High Peak. By the way I was reading that the first "Chinese" professional footballer in England came from Buxton.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Hoi Pic Capi Tal?

[spireitematt]

I'm all for relations with Europe. It's just that they are so predominantly anal, with so much bondage involved. Why do we always end up in that gimp mask?

Well we all have to wear masks from the 24th if we go in shops now. It might come in handy.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your gimp mask goes down in the High Peak. By the way I was reading that the first "Chinese" professional footballer in England came from Buxton.

Not my thing Dev, but it might suit a few politicians.

I never heard of that before and googled it, turns out his name is Frank Soo.