[bluepooch]

Dancing I wasn't having a dig at Belgians, I was trying to make the point that EU countries will blend into one and the same if the EU gets their way .I agree with Matt , I don't want Europe to become like the United States .If people come here because its a better lifestyle than their own country that great for them but this country can only be poorer for it .That's why we must have more robust immigration control and only take in people who are going to make this country better .I mean professionals not potato pickers given 5 quid cash in hand from greedy business owners .The Grenfell Fire highlighted the fact that we have no idea who is residing in this country .The reason they couldn't not give a definitive death toll figure is because everyone couldn't be accounted for due to the fact that the authorities didn't know they were here !.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Blue, I was making the point that your view of England for the English is somewhat warped. Most Brits go to live abroad to get away from this country because they think its had it - I think they are right. We are following the USA into the abyss, drugs, knife crime and illegal guns, we even have McDonalds for gods sake
The NHS only functions because of professional immigrant labour. You say that's ok because they will make the country better but don't want to take unskilled labour because it doesn't benefit us. The next time you go into Costa, Nero, any hotel in the country, restaurant etc etc just listen to the accent of the person serving you. Brits just don't want low paid jobs. Unemployment is low so they don't need to.
Like it or lump it we live in a multi cultural society. You cant turn the clock back, its what it is. Voting to leave the EU will change absolutely nothing to do with Immigration or foreign culture in the UK. We are England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland, we are integrated, so please do tell me, what the difference between the UK and Europe actually is because I am baffled with your logic.

[spireitematt]

Blue, I was making the point that your view of England for the English is somewhat warped. Most Brits go to live abroad to get away from this country because they think its had it - I think they are right. We are following the USA into the abyss, drugs, knife crime and illegal guns, we even have McDonalds for gods sake  
The NHS only functions because of professional immigrant labour. You say that's ok because they will make the country better but don't want to take unskilled labour because it doesn't benefit us. The next time you go into Costa, Nero, any hotel in the country, restaurant etc etc just listen to the accent of the person serving you. Brits just don't want low paid jobs. Unemployment is low so they don't need to.
Like it or lump it we live in a multi cultural society. You cant turn the clock back, its what it is. Voting to leave the EU will change absolutely nothing to do with Immigration or foreign culture in the UK. We are England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland, we are integrated, so please do tell me, what the difference between the UK and Europe actually is because I am baffled with your logic.

Most Brits who go and live abroad Dancing are people with ££££ or who have made their money or who have a business such as a shop, restaurant etc.

I agree the NHS does function from immigration such as EU immigration and Non-EU immigration. We as a country need to train up our own Doctors, Nurses etc and I suggest they should do this by giving free tuition to students who want to go into the medical sector as they will repay their tuition by saving lives and helping people and that's much more important than £££.

Is Unemployment low? How many people are working temporary jobs? Zero hour contracts? etc. How many people are unemployed but not claiming benefits?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/unemployme...ers-2017-7

There are no differences as such between the UK and Europe Dancing but there is a difference between the EU and Europe.

[bluepooch]

Dancing I know you have your own business so your type are going to defend the cheap mass labour from the poorer countries because it will give you more profit .A person who comes over from Estonia (again only an example) to work here is going to be grateful for your 5 quid an hour because its more than he is on in his own country.It is no coincide that wages have become depressed since the influx of mass migrant labour.Its deplorable that we cannot train our own people to be professionals .Maybe if we didnt have as many low wage jobs Brits would have more of an incentive to work .I have recently been made redundant after 38 years working for the same company and to be honest I was shocked by the amount of minimum wage jobs out there ,no wonder the rich get richer and poor get poorer.Because wages have been driven down people can barely afford to live in a house ,meanwhile greedy landlords exploit them .
I want the UK to be speak English and not lose the western culture, anyone who comes here should respect our culture and Law .Mass immigration comes mainly as a result of free movement of labour as part of being in the EU.
I'm hearing stories of Pakistani women living over here for 30 years or more and don't speak a word of English ,There's your cultural integration for you .

[St Charles Owl]

People turn round and say but it works in America but the reason it works in America is because it is one whole country and they share the same traditions, culture, identity and language. Plus they all share the same laws with some exceptions in some states.

Not sure that is correct from what I have seen.  There is no official language in the US, the government consistently resists attempts to declare an official language and I hear foreign languages as much as I do English when walking around, especially Spanish for obvious reasons.  I also think a lot of the problems the US has derive from local or regional traditions and cultures being overrun or watered down by federal laws or immigration.  Take it from me, a person from the Deep South (Alabama, Louisiana etc) is very different from a person from the Midwest (Illinois, Michigan) who is again very different from those on the West Coast.

As regards laws, they too differ quite a bit from one state to the next.  Obviously the main laws society is based on are consistent but a hell of a lot of other laws are state, county or city specific.

---

Most Brits who go and live abroad Dancing are people with ££££ or who have made their money or who have a business such as a shop, restaurant etc.

I wish that were the case for me!!!!  I moved to the US because the company I worked for in Sheffield gave me the opportunity to set up their business in Chicago.  It certainly wasn’t because I had money, I was playing with other people’s money!!!  Don’t get me wrong, I earn more here than I would in England but it costs me more to live here as well, so its offset somewhat.  Certainly most ex-pats I know over here came here for similar reasons, an opportunity within the company they work for in England or with another company.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Matt, you are so wrong. Brits go elsewhere because the cost of living is lower or the weather is better. It has nothing to do with being rich or having lots of money. Just watch the Bits Abroad series on CH5. They go to try and make a go of things that they couldn't afford to do in the UK. Others like Charles go to work abroad, its not a new concept, they go to try and better their lives.

Blue, Yes I own my own business but like most other companies in the UK I don't employ cheap foreign labour on a cash in hand basis, I am not rich, I don't fleece my employees and I take no more than a living out of my business in which I invested both mine and my wife's pensions to set up. Nobody that works for me earns the minimum wage. Its a family business and will hopefully give me a pension back when I retire and give my 2 sons a living for the foreseeable future. I took a big risk when I set it up and resent any insinuation that all business owners are out to make a quick buck and fleece workers.
The number of Pakistani's, Indians and Africans in the country has absolutely bog all to do with the EU. Its the UK's own immigration policy that's to blame - if there is any blame. It bothers me not one bit, IMO it makes us richer in terms of knowledge and lifestyle.
2 years ago I went on a sales call to an engineering firm in Bradford. When I walked into the main office there were at least 8 or 9 Sheiks worked there (including the owner). What was most strange was that they all to a man spoke with the broadest Yorkshire accents I have ever heard, there were also white Europeans worked there as well before you say anything. That's integration, it might take generations for some but its the UK we all live in. Like I have said before you cant turn the clock back its what it is. Learn to live with it.

[hibeejim21]

"They go to try and make a go of things that they couldn't afford to do in the UK. Others like Charles go to work abroad, its not a new concept, they go to try and better their lives."


Spot on, but the English seem to object to people doing that here. Even when they wouldn't do the jobs these people do if their lives depended on it.

I just give up. I have no idea what the English want from brexit. Everything pretty much that is bugging them is sourced in the domestic policies of OUR governments. They clearly want less foreigners but they are the first to cry foul if someone dares suggest racism.

[Devongone]

I'm sure both sides of these arguments accurately represent parts of a bigger picture. I remember when working for Ucas - university applications - and speaking to Mohamed Mohamed who I had to ask to repeat everything twice or three times, ............. because of his broad Glaswegian accent. Some of the broadest Yorkshire accents I met were Patels and Khans. Equally there really are women who have been here forty years and have little or no English. And at Ucas we also used to get girls who applied for a list of universities asking to change their choices because they could only attend the university or college nearest their home as they had to be accompanied every day to and from lectures by a male member of the family - usually grandad. (When making their choices originally they had made choices which would have necessitated them leaving the family home completely, so there was clearly a gap between the life they wanted and the one they could have!)

Equally there are businesspeople who screw staff for every last penny, import the cheapest labour possible, care very little about the conditions they provide or the quality of their product .......... but for every one of them there are loads of people of absolute probity doing exactly as Dancing with the same ambitions, and by doing so providing not only for their own families, but for all those they employ. Not everyone is a gangmaster drowning illegal immigrant shrimpers in Morecambe Bay. Though I might organise a very different kind of world, I admire what Dancing has done and hope the current crazed processes of EU withdrawal that even I didn't foresee, don't wreck it. I've very little idea of where we now think we are going and don't believe our EU partners are much clearer than our own idiots.

Brits go overseas for all kinds of reasons. A whole raft of them have properties in France and Spain and do exactly what we complain of in immigrant communities. They learn no more than 20 words of the language. They live British lives in the sun, bringing over family for holidays, find ex-pat friends and collect their British pensions ......... because yes property is so much cheaper. (If we sold our bungalow down here in Devon we'd get £300-£350K and there are beautiful properties on the continent for that.) But there are also loads of Brits overseas for work, setting up businesses, fluent in the language, building a new way of life and contributing to the countries to which they've moved.

All restrictions on trade and movement are created by those same people who open up the EU to apparent freedom. The world could have free trade. There is no actual need to buy and sell money ......... But the world is what it is - a finite planet whose whole future is predicated on growth, whose population rises exponentially every time we get round to counting it ....... where rhinos are wiped out and orang utan are marooned in the last tree of a felled rainforest. Ordinary men have no control and those who might make a difference either set up Facebook or do a bit of networking deep in the snows of Switzerland. (Getting your team relegated at football is fairly insignificant!)

[spireitematt]

People turn round and say but it works in America but the reason it works in America is because it is one whole country and they share the same traditions, culture, identity and language. Plus they all share the same laws with some exceptions in some states.

Not sure that is correct from what I have seen.  There is no official language in the US, the government consistently resists attempts to declare an official language and I hear foreign languages as much as I do English when walking around, especially Spanish for obvious reasons.  I also think a lot of the problems the US has derive from local or regional traditions and cultures being overrun or watered down by federal laws or immigration.  Take it from me, a person from the Deep South (Alabama, Louisiana etc) is very different from a person from the Midwest (Illinois, Michigan) who is again very different from those on the West Coast.

As regards laws, they too differ quite a bit from one state to the next.  Obviously the main laws society is based on are consistent but a hell of a lot of other laws are state, county or city specific.

I know there is no official language but you understand what I mean.

---

Matt, you are so wrong. Brits go elsewhere because the cost of living is lower or the weather is better. It has nothing to do with being rich or having lots of money. Just watch the Bits Abroad series on CH5. They go to try and make a go of things that they couldn't afford to do in the UK. Others like Charles go to work abroad, its not a new concept, they go to try and better their lives.

Blue, Yes I own my own business but like most other companies in the UK I don't employ cheap foreign labour on a cash in hand basis, I am not rich, I don't fleece my employees and I take no more than a living out of my business in which I invested both mine and my wife's pensions to set up. Nobody that works for me earns the minimum wage. Its a family business and will hopefully give me a pension back when I retire and give my 2 sons a living for the foreseeable future. I took a big risk when I set it up and resent any insinuation that all business owners are out to make a quick buck and fleece workers.
The number of Pakistani's, Indians and Africans in the country has absolutely bog all to do with the EU. Its the UK's own immigration policy that's to blame - if there is any blame. It bothers me not one bit, IMO it makes us richer in terms of knowledge and lifestyle.
2 years ago I went on a sales call to an engineering firm in Bradford. When I walked into the main office there were at least 8 or 9 Sheiks worked there (including the owner). What was most strange was that they all to a man spoke with the broadest Yorkshire accents I have ever heard, there were also white Europeans worked there as well before you say anything. That's integration, it might take generations for some but its the UK we all live in. Like I have said before you cant turn the clock back its what it is. Learn to live with it.

I have watched that programme Dancing. I know several people who gone abroad to live and work is Australia not Europe. When it comes to the EU for me, I don't like the bureaucracy and the laws. I think it should go back to a common market with freedom of movement etc.

I would love to set up a business or work for myself but have no clue how to go about it.

Immigration isn't the problem why wages are low, it's to do with the standard of living rising quicker than wages. People who work in the public sector have not had a pay rise in years but MPs like to give themselves pay rises nearly all the time. It isn't the EU's fault why immigration is high its because its not being controlled properly by our own Government. Also do people realise that non-EU immigration is actually higher than EU immigration.

[bluepooch]

Jim, on the other hand , someone dares to criticise another religion and the racism card is immediately shown.
Whats happened to free speech ? I noticed a few thousand turned up at Speakers corner on this subject but the mainstream media were nowhere to be seen and man makes a joke about a N.azi dog and is threatened with prison .Wtf is this country coming to ? .People are getting stabbed on a daily basis in London but so called hate speech is the priority for the police .Sticks and stones and all that.
Why are people so easily offended nowadays ? ,just stop being offended so easily people.Its just arrogance at is very worst.
Dancing ,I wasn't aiming that at you personally I was trying to suggest that as a business owner you would know how to make more profit ,just pay less wages to people who are willing to accept it .There are people out there who do this.