[Baggiebob(BBB)]

Interesting thought:
Should Managers be saleable AFTER BEING SACKED?
After all he has been paid for his service, therefore should be kept on the books until someone else wants him.

So how much is Bilic worth to another club

[Blue Baggie]

You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

[Salopbaggie]

Slick I do not agree with the logic, we could sell all our players and buy cheaper inferior ones and use the same argument, that they are the player we could replace easiest or would miss least, until we have no decent players left.   Who would you buy for £5 million (£15 Mil /3) who would improve our team? Let alone expecting the club to achieve that three times.  What happens if we sell SJ for the £15 million and then the club decide it would be better to spend the money in the summer window instead, when we know which league we will be playing?  We all know how well that works out!.

I would not be at all surprised to see Johnstone in an England shirt before the end of 2021, if he keeps up his current form, so to sell him to perhaps buy 3 x £5 million value players strikes me as not the wisest thing to do.  Could Johnson seriously help to keep us  in the Premier League, maybe.  Could a new 5mil player, probably not.

I'm not sure what you mean about selling all players and buying inferior quality, I never advocated that at all...

What I advocated was selling an individual for a large fee and then using that fee to improve the team in several positions. Of course I wouldn't want to just sell him and buy another keeper, that would be pointless.

I think where our views differ is that I do not believe our squad has what it takes to stay up in its current form. I do not believe Johnstone might help keep us in the Premier League. I don't think it matters who we have in goal because we concede too many shots and chances. Hence why we have the worst goals against record despite Johnstone being irreplaceable, according to the general conscious on here.

I realise that last night's excellent team performance could cloud that. But my view is based on the entire season. Injuries, suspensions and covid isolations pending as well.

I think we need 3 or 4 players incoming to give us a chance of survival. If the cash is available for those, happy days, let's reject bids for anyone. But if we haven't got any cash and someone is bidding £15m or £20m for Johnstone, then i'd be inclined to sell if that money was reinvested in the team now. If could not only buy a replacement goalkeeper, but also a defensive midfielder, a better full back. And I absolutely believe a £5m defensive midfielder could improve us, we don't even have a defensive midfielder at the club currently!

I'm not knocking Johnstone, I acknowledge he's been very good for much of the season. I just don't buy into the fact he's irreplaceable. I believe that the whole is far more important than individual parts.

And my comment was also on the basis that he's got 18 month left on his deal. If we reject bids now and do go down, he'll be worth a lot less.

I think we would all agree no one is irreplaceable. I totally agree that the whole is more important than the individual parts and I fully accept that you did not say selling all the players and buying inferior ones.

What I was saying is that is logical conclusion to your reasoning for selling SJ, you suggested that he was more easily replaceable and we could sell him for £15-20 million, then use the money to buy 3 other players.

My point was, if its a good idea to do it with the only first team player not to have missed a match all this season and most of last, then why would you stop at SJ, because that must indicate that other players are easier replaced within the 'team' (not the squad) because they have been over and over. I fully accept that the position of keeper is different to the rest, but any less important? Still no one has suggested a replacement we could get and yes he will be worth less in 18 months............ if we do not offer him a new deal and that applies to every single member of the squad whose contract is up in 18 months. As for not having a defensive midfielder Sami plays in that position as well as CB. If you are seriously talking about moving on players for economic reasons, then surely you should be starting with Gibbs and we would save 60k a week in wages. Plus his is one of the positions which needs filling most, good luck if you only intend spending £5 million though

[Slick_Footwork]

You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

In another example closer to home, West Ham did the same when selling Grady to us for £18m...

There was uproar when they sold him, even from Mark Noble. The general conscientious said they wouldn't be able to replace his potential for the price...

But they didn't spend that money on a direct replacement, they spent £5m on the right back Coufal, and £14m on the midfielder Soucek. Both of them have been nailed on starters.

They then replaced Grady's position with a loanee, Said Benrahma from Brentford.

The uproar is probably 100% right. Getting someone of Grady's potential for the money received is going to be a difficult task. However, they have made their squad stronger this season by replacing him with a loanee and buying 2 quality internationals permanently. Should they want to sign Benrahma permanently, it will cost them, but they will be able to afford it based on the fact they have comfortably secured another season of Premier League football. The question is, would they have secured it if they kept Grady based on the fact he couldn't directly be replaced which then sacrificed the Soucek and Coufal deals? The jury is out.

[Salopbaggie]

You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

Neither Suarez or Coutino left because, Liverpool were made an offer they could not refuse. Suarez say's he left because Liverpool did not qualifying for Europe and the hard time the British press gave him over the biting incidents . Cortinio had been pushing for his move for a good 12 months before it happened.  The money raised was not spent on the players you suggest it was spent on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson.  Did Liverpool ever get anything for Coutinio?

Today's lesson marked and returned      

[drewks]

Oh for the scouting set up we had, what, 15 years ago, which got us gems like Dorrans, Mulumbu, etc for peanuts!
If you can get a fortune for your 'star' players then replace them with that type..... well, even Arthur Daley would be laughing

[Blue Baggie]

You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

Neither Suarez or Coutino left because, Liverpool were made an offer they could not refuse.  Suarez say's he left because Liverpool did not qualifying for Europe and the hard time the British press gave him over the biting incidents . Cortinio had been pushing for his move for a good 12 months before it happened.  The money raised was not spent on the players you suggest it was spent on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson.  Did Liverpool ever get anything for Coutinio?

Today's lesson marked and returned      

A very unusual reply ? I never mentioned why either player left. I never mentioned how the transfer money was spent either. I don't think a centre half and a goalkeeper could be described as replacements. Together with the sums don't add up. 
Was this a wind up I ask myself.

[Slick_Footwork]

Slick I do not agree with the logic, we could sell all our players and buy cheaper inferior ones and use the same argument, that they are the player we could replace easiest or would miss least, until we have no decent players left.   Who would you buy for £5 million (£15 Mil /3) who would improve our team? Let alone expecting the club to achieve that three times.  What happens if we sell SJ for the £15 million and then the club decide it would be better to spend the money in the summer window instead, when we know which league we will be playing?  We all know how well that works out!.

I would not be at all surprised to see Johnstone in an England shirt before the end of 2021, if he keeps up his current form, so to sell him to perhaps buy 3 x £5 million value players strikes me as not the wisest thing to do.  Could Johnson seriously help to keep us  in the Premier League, maybe.  Could a new 5mil player, probably not.

I'm not sure what you mean about selling all players and buying inferior quality, I never advocated that at all...

What I advocated was selling an individual for a large fee and then using that fee to improve the team in several positions. Of course I wouldn't want to just sell him and buy another keeper, that would be pointless.

I think where our views differ is that I do not believe our squad has what it takes to stay up in its current form. I do not believe Johnstone might help keep us in the Premier League. I don't think it matters who we have in goal because we concede too many shots and chances. Hence why we have the worst goals against record despite Johnstone being irreplaceable, according to the general conscious on here.

I realise that last night's excellent team performance could cloud that. But my view is based on the entire season. Injuries, suspensions and covid isolations pending as well.

I think we need 3 or 4 players incoming to give us a chance of survival. If the cash is available for those, happy days, let's reject bids for anyone. But if we haven't got any cash and someone is bidding £15m or £20m for Johnstone, then i'd be inclined to sell if that money was reinvested in the team now. If could not only buy a replacement goalkeeper, but also a defensive midfielder, a better full back. And I absolutely believe a £5m defensive midfielder could improve us, we don't even have a defensive midfielder at the club currently!

I'm not knocking Johnstone, I acknowledge he's been very good for much of the season. I just don't buy into the fact he's irreplaceable. I believe that the whole is far more important than individual parts.

And my comment was also on the basis that he's got 18 month left on his deal. If we reject bids now and do go down, he'll be worth a lot less.

I think we would all agree no one is irreplaceable. I totally agree that the whole is more important than the individual parts and I fully accept that you did not say selling all the players and buying inferior ones.

What I was saying is that is logical conclusion to your reasoning for selling SJ, you suggested that he was more easily replaceable and we could sell him for £15-20 million, then use the money to buy 3 other players.

My point was, if its a good idea to do it with the only first team player not to have missed a match all this season and most of last, then why would you stop at SJ, because that must indicate that other players are easier replaced within the 'team' (not the squad) because they have been over and over.  I fully accept that the position of keeper is different to the rest, but any less important?   Still no one has suggested a replacement we could get and yes he will be worth less in 18 months............ if we do not offer him a new deal and that applies to every single member of the squad whose contract is up in 18 months. As for not having a defensive midfielder Sami plays in that position as well as CB.  If you are seriously talking about moving on players for economic reasons, then surely you should be starting with Gibbs and we would save 60k a week in wages. Plus his is one of the positions which needs filling most, good luck if you only intend spending £5 million though  

The reason I'm talking about Johnstone in particular is because was linked with Leeds. Given Leeds seem to have a bottomless pit of cash and Johnstone is young and English (27 is like a teenager for a goalkeeper) then he could command a significant fee of circa £15m IMO. That is the sort of fee that would give us some wriggle room in the transfer market.

There are players I'd rather sell than Johnstone of course - Zohore, Bartley, Austin, Gibbs, Edwards, Furlong - the list goes on...

But is anyone interested? Would they bring any decent amount of cash in? I'm not too sure. But what I do know is we can't pick and choose who to sell, teams have to bid.

I believe Gibbs would've been sold years ago if anyone was in for him. But his injury record and salary probably put teams off. He'll stay here until the summer and then walk for free I would imagine.

We only have a handful of players who would command £10m plus. With Johnstone recently being talked up by the media due to his save stats, he is one them along with possibly Ajayi, outside of the young lads we have just signed (Pereira, Grady and Grant). I do firmly believe that if you had to replace either Johnstone or Ajayi, it's far easier to replace a goalkeeper for £4-5m than it is for a centre half. There are plenty of 30-something goalkeepers who are steady and would be available on the cheap I'm sure. Without scouring the leagues, someone like Wayne Hennessey at Palace springs to mind. Played almost 100 times in the Prem and Internationally and is 3rd choice at Palace. And that's just a quick thought, not me scouring squads. There are probably plenty. I bet you could get Ben Foster back for peanuts with Watford trying to trim their wage bill, he looks good for a couple more years.

On the subject of Ajayi playing in midfield, that's something I'd like to see actually. I've alluded to as much several times on here. He's impressive when he strides forward out of defence with the ball and I think he'd chip in with some goals from midfield if he was given a run there. But we'd need to sign another centre half to free him up to play there. This is one of the many areas we are short squad wise.

[Salopbaggie]

You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

Neither Suarez or Coutino left because, Liverpool were made an offer they could not refuse.  Suarez say's he left because Liverpool did not qualifying for Europe and the hard time the British press gave him over the biting incidents . Cortinio had been pushing for his move for a good 12 months before it happened.  The money raised was not spent on the players you suggest it was spent on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson.  Did Liverpool ever get anything for Coutinio?

Today's lesson marked and returned      

A very unusual reply ? I never mentioned why either player left. I never mentioned how the transfer money was spent either. I don't think a centre half and a goalkeeper could be described as replacements. Together with the sums don't add up. 
Was this a wind up I ask myself.

I am asking myself if this is a wind up as well     With respect, you did say why they left, I quote "when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold"  So it appears you are saying, they left because Liverpool got a big offer for them.  This is in a thread about selling players to bring in money so you can reinvest that money in other players and you then say "they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better".

I think it is an easy assumption to make when we were discussing if a big offer came in Johnson should he be sold and the money reinvested in other players because no one is irreplaceable and you read your post in relation to that discussion, on the same thread, that you were in the same discussion as the rest of us.

[Dingle-Dingle]

I think if the club got £15M for SJ the only monies outgoing would be on a new suitcase and postage to China. DD