[Devongone]

"Lose what ? We would be an equal partner in one of the worlds largest trading blocs."

Oh God Jim, you want me to believe the EU is a partnership of equals? How dumb do you think I am?

Ireland is so vehemently opposed to the UK leaving the EU because our departure will leave it marooned in the Irish Sea, trying to make its leprechaun-sized voice heard in the chambers of EU power. Brexit has brought their Taoseiach to prominence, they've been a net beneficiary of EU funding, but once we're gone only the slight danger posed by Northern Ireland will even keep them on the bankers' radar.

Scotland would apparently surrender the independence it deserves for rule from Germany and France. If England were out of the EU, Scotland applying for entry would be a suicide that luckily the Spanish would block. If Brexit and independence both happened Scotland would much better off to examine the Norwegian and Swiss models as a way forward. Jeez you sold your freedom once, don't do it again.

But none of this will happen. The EU clearly wants us to stay. The money we provide allows them to substitute cash for the actual day-to-day involvement of several of the apparently equal partners. A lot, if not a majority of our country might now cast their ballots in a different direction. Russia currently has La May riding a little higher in the waves, but she's still facing dissent in her own party and Labour is only a step from calling for another vote.

---

'Scotland, for instance, is massively Remain, to the extent that a good percentage of its population would support full independence and immediately vote to lose it within the EU.'



Lose what ? We would be an equal partner in one of the worlds largest trading blocs.
The economic cost to the UK of leaving the EU could be as high as a reduction of 10 per cent in average incomes by 2030. If Scotland, by becoming independent, can avoid that fate then you have a clear long-term economic gain right there.

But if you want to keep banging that particular drum about losing our independence,then remember there is more than one way to achieve it.
There is a path that could make an independent Scotland better off and keep its integrity as a nation, but it will likely involve some hard truths (the core of it could be EEA not EU via EFTA, outside customs union and probably agreeing to keep Faslane) 

Right now in England you are seeing what is happening when a leader prioritises pandering to dyed-in-the-wool fanatics - planning to go for a hard Brexit with no trade deal without even costing what the economic implications are - and thus policy is just a car crash. Its going to be the working class that pay for this too,not the likes of **** rees-mogg and boris.

I'm hoping if scotland attains her independence that we avoid these kind of mistakes.

---

Jim,
Its always the ones at the bottom of the chain that are made to suffer. The day I hear a politician of any party turn around and say "Sorry, we screwed up big style, but I will give 25% of my salary back until we turn things around again" even to hear a politician of any party say the first word - Sorry, would be a breath of fresh air.
Politicians are greedy money grabbing sewer rats. In South Yorkshire a Barnsey Labour MP (Jarvis) who doesn't want a South Yorkshire Mayor was/is actually standing for the roll. Best of all he was staying on as an MP because he believed he could do both full time jobs together? So with a combined salary well in excess of £100k he was smiling all the way to the bank. Labours NEC then ruled nobody could do both together, they probably foresaw the newspaper headlines.
Dan Jarvis is gutted - I bet he is.

Dan Jarvis withdrew from the Labour leadership contest because as a single dad he wanted to devote more time to his children. Hmmmmmm.