[hibeejim21]

Yes, the Labour party are in a poor position.  But I can't see any circumstance where those traditional Labour voters who voted Leave would vote for the Tories in any upcoming election, they will overwhelmingly still vote for Labour as there is no other alternative.  Labour needs to bite the bullet and come out with a clear stance on this, its probably the only way to stop the Tories and any Labour member will surely see that irrespective of how they voted in the referendum.  Policy positions can change as the situations that we find ourselves in changes too, nothing is set in stone with politics like this.

They also need to stop worrying about their traditional voters and focus on what they can do to entice the Tory voters who voted to stay, of which there are a few million, and use the middle ground to win an election, but they have to be bold to do that and as I say I am not convinced Corbyn has enough hold on power to push that through the party.

Au contraire. I actually think they are in a better position than the tories,and have the advantage of being able to be more flexible going forward as this shitstorm unravels. The tories don't have that luxury,may is firmly being driven down a hard brexit cul de sac by loon balls like bojo,IDS and rees mogg.

I was quite impressed with his speech today,not all of it was workable but it was miles better and clearer than anything may has produced so far and made a better fist of appealing to leavers and remainers than boris's speech did.

If it is 'cakeism' well at least his cake has some ingredients.

I agree that the Tories are in a worse position, except for one key thing - they "won" the last election.  Labour's goal has to be to get back into power and their policies need to be decisive and inclusive if they want to do that.  They have to be able to attract some of the middle ground voters who voted remain and Tory if they want to have any chance of winning the next election and I think that means that have to take a stance that is unequivocal and to some extent opposite of what the Tories are suggesting and doing!

Cakeism?? - that is a new word on me!!!

Well people have a choice now, labour is now the party of soft brexit, and hard Brexit, which Labour opposes, will hit the so-called heartlands hardest.

I think support for brexit is going to dissipate and now Corbyn and labour finally have a position, there's a lot more work required to spell out what it means for the 'middle ground' as you call them. But he's taken that first important step, i'm actually surprised - he's been a bit more pragmatic than i thought he would.

It's the smart political move. Who would have thought the CBI and institute of directors would take his side over the tories on this ?