[St Charles Owl]

Not once have I said that the EU has done nothing for us!!!!!!  I said I have yet to see a persuasive argument for why we should stay in the EU??  I have no doubt the EU has done many good things, but where were these points during the referendum??

Is none of what I quoted persuasive? They are easily found facts.

These points were made,just drowned out by the howls of misinformation and right wing bile from the "take back control " crew.

Seems to me also the the EU gets slated for a lot of what Westminster is equally guilty of. Frankly id take the EU over Westminster any day.

There are some good points in what you say but they all came at a cost as well!! But I am not sold on the notion that without us being part of the EU these things wouldn't have happened. Cigarette advertising on tv in the UK was banned in the 60s with further restrictions in the 70s, 80s and eventually a complete ban in 1990s under Blair government, I am not sure we needed the EU to get there with that legislation. Climate change is a worldwide issue and we would have been part of those talks with or without the EU, just as other countries were. But as i say, they are good points.

Going back to the referendum itself, I get the noise that was made by the leave campaign but the remain campaign needed to make noise of its own, it needed the points you made to be put in the public domain and it needed the support of the "airtime" politicians to be out there shouting about the good things. The reality was the remain campaign let the leave campaign dictate the debate virtually through the whole thing.