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28-06-2016, 01:18
(This post was last modified: 28-06-2016, 01:20 by Statesideowl.)
Southgate... They're already looking within the yes man criteria then 
Messi also retired from international football today after saying it just wasn't going to happen for Argentina.
I wonder how long Shrek and co will still be milking it?
"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject." Marcus Aurelius
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Shambles of a tournament from start to finish!! So many players getting nowhere near the form they have showed week in, week out for their clubs!!
Sterling is still young and may improve under Pep, but he should never have been on the plane let alone in the starting line up.
Hart is shocking, end of!!
Full backs are the only players to come out of this with any credit.
Cahill is a reserve squad player
Smalling is a good player and will keep developing
Alli, Barkely and Dier will improve with age, but let them play their game rather than restricting them!!
Kane has looked so jaded and tired but he will be class going forward.
Vardy is a one trick pony, but he should have been the pony used at this tournament, he will never be on better form than this season!!
Rashford was a breath of fresh air when he came on, took on his man and beat him most of the time, one fo rthe future, lets hope he develops at Manure.
Rooney, like Messi should just retire, he won't win anything now anyway.
Wilshire is a good player, like Maddix said I felt sorry for him in some ways due to his injuries and then being asked to play. He shouldn't have been taken this time round, not because he isn't good enough but because he isn't fit and has zero form currently. Still one for the team going forward.
Roy has done the right thing and resigned, and England should be able to find someone who can take the kids in this squad and make them into a team, but who is that person??
madsteve and Statesideowl like this post
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The last WC was equally as poor, we didn't win a single game there though.. Woy has done nothing but destroy a bunch of kids.
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"The opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them know anything about the subject." Marcus Aurelius
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Iceland 2 England 1
"God Save the King."
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(28-06-2016, 01:46)Statesideowl Wrote: The last WC was equally as poor, we didn't win a single game there though.. Woy has done nothing but destroy a bunch of kids.
Thankfully, this time the kids are still kids, so there is time for them to improve as a units. The likes of Kane, Alli, Dier, Smalling, Barkely and Rashford will still be kids in 2 years. We desperately need a leader or two to emerge, we haven't replaced Terry, Lampard and Gerrard on that front.
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Hard to be disappointed when you're 200 quid up (although that's worth about a fiver in today's money )
Removed until we're actually on our way back 
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Terrible performance but should we be surprised. We have been turning in terrible tournament performances since we started playing tournaments with the exception of 1966 with home advantage. Even with home advantage in 1996, we only won two matches out of five and one of those was against Scotland.
Hodgson got several things wrong but he is little better or worse than Capello, Sven, McLaren, Keegan et al. The system is such that whoever has the job, they are destined to fail. I am not bothered - tournaments just fill a gap between Wednesday seasons.
Hart - 2
Walker - 4
Cahill - 5
Smalling - 5
Rose - 3
Dier - 3
Rooney - 2
Alli - 3
Sterling - 4
Kane - 2
Sturridge - 4
...............................
Wilshire - 3
Vardy - 4
Rashford - 7
Where did it go wrong?
It will always go wrong. Just accept that & we stop being disappointed.
IMO, Hodgson got a number of things wrong including:
1) He was bold taking so many young players & introduced players like Alli, Dier, Rashford, Barkley & Kane but he should have gone the whole way & committed to build around the youngsters rather than ageing players.
2) He needed to make a clean break from the losing mentality of the past. Serial international losers like Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand & Cole had moved on & maybe if Hodgson had cleared out the last few (Rooney, Milner) then maybe the freedom of expression showed by younger players might have flourished.
3) Joe Hart has been a top keeper until last season. There have been increasing questions asked about him throughout last season but Hodgson stuck loyally with him. That seems to be misplaced loyalty now when Forster has been outstanding.
4) Players that just miss out on a title invariably play poorly in tournaments that summer. Spurs managed to finish third in a two horse race yet Hodgson stuffed his squad with Spurs players. Dier had one good game while Walker & Rose had two good games. By last night, Walker & Rose looked lost, Dier & Alli couldn't pass a ball while Kane looked a shadow of a PL player. Maybe if Hodgson had stuffed the squad with winners, we would have done better.
5) There appeared to be no coherent strategy. We seemed to wing it from one match to the next. These tournaments are won by teams that pick players that are in form, build up momentum & go for it. Who would say that Cahill, Stones, Barkley, Sterling, Milner, Henderson or Wilshire were on form.
6) Taking players who were not proven fit. Sometimes you will gamble on a players fitness if they are Messsi or Ronaldo but you don't waste a space on an injured Wilshire or Henderson.
7) We lack a real leader on the pitch. Ideally we need a young CB who can command the team. No-one around atm.
Hodgson is gone & it doesn't really matter who comes in because they will fail as well. Let's just hope that whoever it is goes for it before they are sacked.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
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(28-06-2016, 10:06)madsteve Wrote: Terrible performance but should we be surprised. We have been turning in terrible tournament performances since we started playing tournaments with the exception of 1966 with home advantage. Even with home advantage in 1996, we only won two matches out of five and one of those was against Scotland.
Hodgson got several things wrong but he is little better or worse than Capello, Sven, McLaren, Keegan et al. The system is such that whoever has the job, they are destined to fail. I am not bothered - tournaments just fill a gap between Wednesday seasons.
Hart - 2
Walker - 4
Cahill - 5
Smalling - 5
Rose - 3
Dier - 3
Rooney - 2
Alli - 3
Sterling - 4
Kane - 2
Sturridge - 4
...............................
Wilshire - 3
Vardy - 4
Rashford - 7
Where did it go wrong?
It will always go wrong. Just accept that & we stop being disappointed.
IMO, Hodgson got a number of things wrong including:
1) He was bold taking so many young players & introduced players like Alli, Dier, Rashford, Barkley & Kane but he should have gone the whole way & committed to build around the youngsters rather than ageing players.
2) He needed to make a clean break from the losing mentality of the past. Serial international losers like Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand & Cole had moved on & maybe if Hodgson had cleared out the last few (Rooney, Milner) then maybe the freedom of expression showed by younger players might have flourished.
3) Joe Hart has been a top keeper until last season. There have been increasing questions asked about him throughout last season but Hodgson stuck loyally with him. That seems to be misplaced loyalty now when Forster has been outstanding.
4) Players that just miss out on a title invariably play poorly in tournaments that summer. Spurs managed to finish third in a two horse race yet Hodgson stuffed his squad with Spurs players. Dier had one good game while Walker & Rose had two good games. By last night, Walker & Rose looked lost, Dier & Alli couldn't pass a ball while Kane looked a shadow of a PL player. Maybe if Hodgson had stuffed the squad with winners, we would have done better.
5) There appeared to be no coherent strategy. We seemed to wing it from one match to the next. These tournaments are won by teams that pick players that are in form, build up momentum & go for it. Who would say that Cahill, Stones, Barkley, Sterling, Milner, Henderson or Wilshire were on form.
6) Taking players who were not proven fit. Sometimes you will gamble on a players fitness if they are Messsi or Ronaldo but you don't waste a space on an injured Wilshire or Henderson.
7) We lack a real leader on the pitch. Ideally we need a young CB who can command the team. No-one around atm.
Hodgson is gone & it doesn't really matter who comes in because they will fail as well. Let's just hope that whoever it is goes for it before they are sacked.
Blimey, Wednesday never had ratings that bad!
Nothing great will ever be achieved without great men, and men are great only if they are determined to be so. For glory gives herself only to those who have always dreamed of her.
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(28-06-2016, 01:27)St Charles Owl Wrote: Shambles of a tournament from start to finish!! So many players getting nowhere near the form they have showed week in, week out for their clubs!!
Sterling is still young and may improve under Pep, but he should never have been on the plane let alone in the starting line up.
Hart is shocking, end of!!
Full backs are the only players to come out of this with any credit.
Cahill is a reserve squad player
Smalling is a good player and will keep developing
Alli, Barkely and Dier will improve with age, but let them play their game rather than restricting them!!
Kane has looked so jaded and tired but he will be class going forward.
Vardy is a one trick pony, but he should have been the pony used at this tournament, he will never be on better form than this season!!
Rashford was a breath of fresh air when he came on, took on his man and beat him most of the time, one fo rthe future, lets hope he develops at Manure.
Rooney, like Messi should just retire, he won't win anything now anyway.
Wilshire is a good player, like Maddix said I felt sorry for him in some ways due to his injuries and then being asked to play. He shouldn't have been taken this time round, not because he isn't good enough but because he isn't fit and has zero form currently. Still one for the team going forward.
Roy has done the right thing and resigned, and England should be able to find someone who can take the kids in this squad and make them into a team, but who is that person??
Shambles is a bit harsh over the whole tournament, against the Russains we were 30seconds away from winning and should've been well out of sight by the time they scored.
Against Wales a pretty even first half but let down by Hart, Roy went for it in the second half and it was pretty much one way traffic but in the end another game we deserved to win, even the Welsh pundits agreed on that.
Slovakia- another dominant performance and another game where the final ball or the strikers let us down, trouble with that game is Slovakia knew they were through with a point and didn't even try to attack. In the old system of 2 going trough they would've had to try and attack us and leave space in behind the Slovakia defence.
Overall we've probably created as many chances if not more than anyone else in this tournament but the finishing has been our problem, having said that who else would we have taken instead of Kane,Vardy,Rooney,Sturridge and Rashford(yes Roy should've given Rashford more game time)
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The game as a whole last night was enough to stop you wanting to watch football ever again. Unless you're from Iceland.
It was like watching an Amateur team play a Pub team and the Amateurs won. I'd have fancied some of my old Sunday League sides putting on a better show than England last night. The fear and desperation was clear in the player's demeanour as soon as they gifted that first goal, then as soon as Hart threw himself over the top of another soft shot the game was up but we had to suffer another hour of torture. Well played Iceland, I hope you do a Greece and win the whole thing.
I'm watching the tennis from now on. I saw an English bloke win a match there yesterday!
You know nothing, Jacko
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