28-09-2022, 17:47
Been charged with sexual assault.
Big Bore Exhaust = Small Dick
James Rowe
29-09-2022, 13:06
VERY, VERY SIGNIFICANT THAT OUR WEBSITE DOESN'T MENTION IT.
We may be 10 games unbeaten but aren't we just the same old, same old? Telling those who care about the club, something that has become public knowledge anyway, hardly occurs to the powers that be.
Supporters? Just get your arses out of the cattle trucks early enough to catch the kick off on Saturday.
If fans are part of a club, part of a community then they share, or should share, just as they share in the club's successes and all its recent failures. Tell us and trust us, a few simple words, the facts as you know them. That's all.
The alternative is our usual policy of Hallam Hoping that we won't have to deal with it, nuffink to do wiv us guv.
We may be 10 games unbeaten but aren't we just the same old, same old? Telling those who care about the club, something that has become public knowledge anyway, hardly occurs to the powers that be.
Supporters? Just get your arses out of the cattle trucks early enough to catch the kick off on Saturday.
If fans are part of a club, part of a community then they share, or should share, just as they share in the club's successes and all its recent failures. Tell us and trust us, a few simple words, the facts as you know them. That's all.
The alternative is our usual policy of Hallam Hoping that we won't have to deal with it, nuffink to do wiv us guv.
29-09-2022, 14:20
Fully agree Dev. I know what they legally can say is limited but still they should say something.
Seems someone was arrested on Sept 9th charged with assault on Hope after the Oldham game. Again why not say something, if it goes to court everyone will know anyway.
Seems someone was arrested on Sept 9th charged with assault on Hope after the Oldham game. Again why not say something, if it goes to court everyone will know anyway.
Big Bore Exhaust = Small Dick
29-09-2022, 16:23
I really don`t understand why should the club has to say anything at all. In fact, I think their best course of action really is to do what it`s doing; keep shtum and say nowt. All it could do is state the facts – which are apparently in the public domain already, or we wouldn`t know anything about them; so what`s the point? - and to go an inch further on a case that`s sub judice would be VERY dangerous. They could end up on the receiving end of a charge of anything from hindering a police investigation to contempt of court. Far better just to let the police do their job. The same applies to the Oldham business.
If you think about it, it really is nothing to do with us now; hasn`t been since JR and the club parted company. That being so, I really don`t think that as CFC supporters we have the right to know anything; no more than with any other criminal investigation. Why should we? As Dancing says, the facts will all be laid bare (no pun intended) if and when the case goes to trial; so why take the risk? Until then, any interest on our (the supporters`) part would be nothing more than prurience.
If you think about it, it really is nothing to do with us now; hasn`t been since JR and the club parted company. That being so, I really don`t think that as CFC supporters we have the right to know anything; no more than with any other criminal investigation. Why should we? As Dancing says, the facts will all be laid bare (no pun intended) if and when the case goes to trial; so why take the risk? Until then, any interest on our (the supporters`) part would be nothing more than prurience.
Salts,
If the club says nothing and the rest of the world is being told something, it looks as though we are keeping something secret, that we know something we cannot, or will not speak.
Even if our online statements are only words to the effect that we have been informed that our former manager James Rowe has been charged with ....... etc. Similarly, we could say that someone has been charged with regard to the Hallam Hope incident, but as it is sub judice we cannot say more. That shows we want to communicate.
It is almost always better to communicate than to maintain silence. Silence only creates a space for others to fill. If you say what you can say and say it honestly people will trust what you tell them on other matters ..... like team selection, transfers, the club's progress. Excluding people is rarely beneficial and as for silence, look where keeping schtum has got Kwasi Kwarteng.
Huddersfield for instance yesterday had not managed to tell its fans that they had a new manager, but he was already taking training that day. How highly will they in future rate their own website as a source of information?
On a personal level you are an excellent communicator, but you were a banker. Do you think perhaps your communication expectations may have been lowered by that experience?
Speaking is a risk you can control by what you say. Silence is a risk in which you hand control to the rest of the world.
If the club says nothing and the rest of the world is being told something, it looks as though we are keeping something secret, that we know something we cannot, or will not speak.
Even if our online statements are only words to the effect that we have been informed that our former manager James Rowe has been charged with ....... etc. Similarly, we could say that someone has been charged with regard to the Hallam Hope incident, but as it is sub judice we cannot say more. That shows we want to communicate.
It is almost always better to communicate than to maintain silence. Silence only creates a space for others to fill. If you say what you can say and say it honestly people will trust what you tell them on other matters ..... like team selection, transfers, the club's progress. Excluding people is rarely beneficial and as for silence, look where keeping schtum has got Kwasi Kwarteng.
Huddersfield for instance yesterday had not managed to tell its fans that they had a new manager, but he was already taking training that day. How highly will they in future rate their own website as a source of information?
On a personal level you are an excellent communicator, but you were a banker. Do you think perhaps your communication expectations may have been lowered by that experience?
Speaking is a risk you can control by what you say. Silence is a risk in which you hand control to the rest of the world.
29-09-2022, 18:37
Notwithstanding my apparently nefarious professional career, in general terms I believe very much that openness in communication is to be applauded and encouraged IF there is something constructive to be gained from it and UNLESS there are possible risks in it. In this case, I happen to think that both of those caveats apply.
In the case of the Birmingham City / Tshimanga business, for example, I am convinced that the club could and should have been far more communicative than they were and really can`t understand why they weren`t. If there is a valid reason (commercial sensitivity, for instance; I`ve had plenty of experience of that) I think they should have said so. In that particular case, I suspect we`ll never know the full story – which does indeed create a vacuum to be filled by anyone with a theory, no matter how crazy.
For the reasons I`ve already given, however, I think that both this and the Hallam Hope case are different. Some people will undoubtedly come up with their own weird and wacky theories; the abundance of blatantly bonkers conspiracy theories going around about virtually anything and everything these days is testament to that. As I`ve already said, though, when and if they go to court these will either be proven to be correct (highly unlikely in most cases, I`d have thought) or completely blown out of the water. All we have to do to find out is to wait a while. If it turns out that the club does have something to hide, that will also come out and somebody will almost certainly have to pay the price.
It`s not a question of hope that we won`t have to deal with either case; it`s a fact. The police, the CPS and the courts are going to have to deal with them. The club suspended pending investigation and then sacked JR but it`s not down to us to prosecute him. Oldham took the Hallam Hope business out of our hands the moment they referred it to the police. I`m not suggesting for a second that they weren`t within their rights or were wrong to do that but the moment they did the matter was completely out of our hands and the statement that the club made was 100% appropriate, to my thinking.
In the case of the Birmingham City / Tshimanga business, for example, I am convinced that the club could and should have been far more communicative than they were and really can`t understand why they weren`t. If there is a valid reason (commercial sensitivity, for instance; I`ve had plenty of experience of that) I think they should have said so. In that particular case, I suspect we`ll never know the full story – which does indeed create a vacuum to be filled by anyone with a theory, no matter how crazy.
For the reasons I`ve already given, however, I think that both this and the Hallam Hope case are different. Some people will undoubtedly come up with their own weird and wacky theories; the abundance of blatantly bonkers conspiracy theories going around about virtually anything and everything these days is testament to that. As I`ve already said, though, when and if they go to court these will either be proven to be correct (highly unlikely in most cases, I`d have thought) or completely blown out of the water. All we have to do to find out is to wait a while. If it turns out that the club does have something to hide, that will also come out and somebody will almost certainly have to pay the price.
It`s not a question of hope that we won`t have to deal with either case; it`s a fact. The police, the CPS and the courts are going to have to deal with them. The club suspended pending investigation and then sacked JR but it`s not down to us to prosecute him. Oldham took the Hallam Hope business out of our hands the moment they referred it to the police. I`m not suggesting for a second that they weren`t within their rights or were wrong to do that but the moment they did the matter was completely out of our hands and the statement that the club made was 100% appropriate, to my thinking.
29-09-2022, 19:12
I don't expect to be given every last drop of information but in the case of Hope why couldn't the club just say that a member of staff or player had been arrested and charged with assault?Surely that's better than fans finding out 3 weeks later. That's how conspiracy theory's start.
Big Bore Exhaust = Small Dick
If you are building a community club, bringing the community into the club and extending the club into the community then being as open and transparent as is possible is not a distant ideal, it is an absolute essential. It is central to the nature of the club or should be.
It is simply nonsense to have a section entitled News on your website and then when there is news, or the club itself is actually IN THE NEWS, to pretend that is not happening. As Dancing points out that is precisely where conspiracy theories start. The club ends up looking either bad, or incompetent. Wherever you can, you should set the agenda, say what you know you can say, explain that there may be other stuff the club is not either allowed to say, or may simply be unaware of, and address the concerns of those who invest their money in the club every week as far as you can.
Issues can be sensitive like the Tshimanga non-transfer. If medical details are involved, they are both personal to the player and may affect his future value in any transfer deal. But dealing with it, or anything else by saying NOWT is NOT DEALING with it. That is where skill, sensitivity and occasionally legal advice are necessary.
Behind some of these matters lies the issue that almost all branches of the law move at an unnecessarily molluscular pace. How can it take the police weeks to arrest the perpetrator of the Hope "attack"? If it was known to be a Chesterfield player then the identity was known. He wasn't in full kit! Similarly James Rowe has now lost two jobs over his case. What if he's not guilty? Similarly, the poor woman involved must see this incident stretching endlessly into her future as she waits to go through the torture of testifying. (Ryan Giggs won't be capable of punching anyone by the time a decision is reached on that one!) No wonder women don't bring cases to court ......
The reality of communication is very much illustrated in today's Daily Mail. Two articles deliberately side by side, one James Rowe resigning, the other the Hope arrest. At no point is there mention of anything done or said by the club, other than we sacked Rowe. We end up looking like a cowboy outfit, women and opposition not safe from us, yet we did absolutely the right thing in supporting the victim rather than our successful manager. That's why managing what you say with skill and sensitivity without prejudicing the case itself is vital. It's hard, but then so is getting out of the National League,
It is simply nonsense to have a section entitled News on your website and then when there is news, or the club itself is actually IN THE NEWS, to pretend that is not happening. As Dancing points out that is precisely where conspiracy theories start. The club ends up looking either bad, or incompetent. Wherever you can, you should set the agenda, say what you know you can say, explain that there may be other stuff the club is not either allowed to say, or may simply be unaware of, and address the concerns of those who invest their money in the club every week as far as you can.
Issues can be sensitive like the Tshimanga non-transfer. If medical details are involved, they are both personal to the player and may affect his future value in any transfer deal. But dealing with it, or anything else by saying NOWT is NOT DEALING with it. That is where skill, sensitivity and occasionally legal advice are necessary.
Behind some of these matters lies the issue that almost all branches of the law move at an unnecessarily molluscular pace. How can it take the police weeks to arrest the perpetrator of the Hope "attack"? If it was known to be a Chesterfield player then the identity was known. He wasn't in full kit! Similarly James Rowe has now lost two jobs over his case. What if he's not guilty? Similarly, the poor woman involved must see this incident stretching endlessly into her future as she waits to go through the torture of testifying. (Ryan Giggs won't be capable of punching anyone by the time a decision is reached on that one!) No wonder women don't bring cases to court ......
The reality of communication is very much illustrated in today's Daily Mail. Two articles deliberately side by side, one James Rowe resigning, the other the Hope arrest. At no point is there mention of anything done or said by the club, other than we sacked Rowe. We end up looking like a cowboy outfit, women and opposition not safe from us, yet we did absolutely the right thing in supporting the victim rather than our successful manager. That's why managing what you say with skill and sensitivity without prejudicing the case itself is vital. It's hard, but then so is getting out of the National League,
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