[Chezzie Owl]

So are you Consilio

[madsteve]

You're still wrong Chezzie

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He's got 56 league goals in 90 games over the last three years.

An excellent record.

Rooney's record looks good on paper because he punishes weak teams but his record against the best teams in Championship Finals, falls short and has done many times. I feel that players like Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley, AOC might be able to do it at that highest level but we might not find out if Rooney continues to have an automatic starting role for the next six years.

All those players you mention can play in the side with Rooney, so there's no problem

Wellbeck & Sturridge up front, Barkley, AOC & Sterling behind.

Rooney - wing back?

[Chezzie Owl]

Or Left Back on the bench

[Thurnscoe_OWL]

Stick Rooney at RB so we don't have to play Glenn Johnson

[consilio]

Anybody that thinks Danny Welbeck is worth his starting place in an international side ahead of Wayne Rooney needs their head looking at.

[madsteve]

Anybody that thinks Danny Welbeck is worth his starting place in an international side ahead of Wayne Rooney needs their head looking at.

Welbeck is behind Rooney at the moment but is improving & could do a job at a Championship. Rooney has had several goes at Championships and pretty much failed each time. We need to give Wellbeck game time now so that he can reach his potential.

[Chezzie Owl]

Rooney doesn't deserve to start the next England game until he sorts himself out and starts being the fiery, hungry Rooney of old and starts scoring more goals (and not just pens before you mention the Norway game consilio)...not this new Rooney who looks like a little boy lost. If England had a game tomorrow then judging by Welbeck's current form and Rooney's, then Welbeck deserves to start ahead of him. You may not agree and that's fine but I think it's a logical view that I have. You cannot simply pick players because of status, the club they play for and past reputation, if they are out of form or past it (not saying Rooney is past it) then others that are in form deserve the nod.

Please don't think that I think Rooney is shite or that I don't rate him, course I do, he can be brilliant when he wants to be but surely you have to admit that his form over the last 2-3 years or so haven't been that great and that as MS says that if Rooney keeps being included in the starting line ups, regardless of form and status, that it could potentially hinder any progress that the national team will make when we have terrific young players coming through that can play well together too.

Personally I think no player has the god given right to automatically start any England game, no matter how good they are, they have to earn that right by putting in good performances for their club and by training hard and working hard Whether it be Welbeck, Sterling, Rooney Oxlade or whoever!!

[consilio]

I've already posted his goal scoring record over the past three years. It's as good as anybody's

[Chezzie Owl]

But not as good as Messi's, Falcao's, and Lewandowski's.

Is that your only comeback? something we have discussed already, cant bring yourself to agree with me

We are talking about CURRENT FORM, not his goals, yes he has been prolific over the years but it's been 2 years since he hit 20+ goals, the above mentioned World class strikers hit 20+ goals EVERY SEASON when they reach their potential, he hasn't, in fact over his 12 year career he has only scored 20+ goals in FOUR of those seasons, hardly boasts the record of a World Class striker as you claim that he is.

[madsteve]

I've already posted his goal scoring record over the past three years.  It's as good as anybody's

.....but not at major championships & that is what we need.