[BaggieSteve]

We really need to be looking at resigning Gareth Barry to add some energy and pace to our midfield...

In all seriousness, I'm not happy with Big Sam's selections so far, which is a bit embarrassing after championing him so much for the job. The selections pretty much mimic his inept predecessor. For me it's blatantly obvious that we don't have the quality to outplay teams so we need to move to a more industrial line up, get as many big blokes in as possible, play direct, play the percentages.

Play to other teams weaknesses.

But what I will say is that we have very little quality at our disposal and I can't blame Big Sam for that.

It's not his fault we have only 1 right back at the club who is a bog average championship player. The fact we don't have a single defensive midfielder at the club. The fact that all but one of our "forwards" are really wingers and don't make any attempt to get onto balls into the box. The fact the only proper striker we have is completely immobile. The fact we decided to spend £40m in the summer on a load of wingers, none of which have top flight experience.

But that said, the changes need to be rung...

There is little point persisting with Grady who is a non entity. Saywers doesn't have the energy to play in a 2 man midfield, so if Pereira plays, Ajayi must be pushed forward.

But that said, the reality is that we're just desperately short of Premier League quality. The only experienced Premier League player we have who has a willing mentality is several years past his best. The only decent full back we have is always injured, and even his quality is questionable. Not one of the "exciting young creative players" we have signed have convinced me they are good enough to play at this level. Our star player has the pace of a snail. I'm starting to think it's a task too far for any manager without mass incomings asap.

You’re right, Slick, your championing of Allardyce is now somewhat embarrassing. You describe Bilic is “inept” and I would challenge your use of that in the way you challenged me for describing Ivanovic as “appalling”. However, if you’re going to describe Bilic as inept, you’re going to have to apply it now to Allardyce. The guy is indeed inept.
Accepting he has to use the players at his disposal, we were lead to believe that there would be an undoubted improvement over Bilic’s team of sloppy defending, baffling selections and substitutions, and tactical naivety. There is absolutely no improvement and, as regards defending, I would argue we have gone backwards. There is no discernible shape or pattern to our play, it is totally aimless. I await with interest the players Allardyce brings in during January...interest but no expectation.

[Baggie_One]

A bit better performance wise as we at least tried to “attack” however we simply do not have the quality players to achieve anything positive. Even ajayi was shocking tonight.

[Minizin]

What are we trying to do?

Defensively - neither pressing nor structured.

Attacking - we don’t

Off the pitch - if there’s money to be spent (beyond Hegazi money), why didn’t we spend it in the summer? And if there isn’t, why did Allardyce take the job?

[Salopbaggie]

Can we have Bilic back yet please. Wolves away our next league game, so I will be entering social isolation for the next 5 years from that date.

[Blue Baggie]

It's time to move on. That's it same again means same again.
Players out of position, unfit and unmotivated it's over before we started.
Sam you can go your having a laugh.
Luke you and your team can go you've not got us one single good player since you showed up.

[baggietrousers]

Agree, its Allardyce who is inept. We weren't this bad under Bilic.
Yes it's Bilic's squad, but let's be fair, he was given little support from the owner. Not saying he didn't make mistakes, he did and plenty of them. But Allardyce is far worse.
Personally I'd get rid of the dinosaur now, he is clearly out of touch. We are getting relegated so lets get a young new head coach in now and start building a young exciting team for next season. Give the new man a chance to see what we've got (albeit not much) and give him time and money to build for the future.

[WBA-Josh]

Right now I see Allardyce's time at the club going the same way as Pardew's did. The expectation of an immediate upturn in results hits the reality of a squad built to play a certain way, which doesn't suit the new guy's own style, and a Head Coach who is stuck in his old ways which has worked with other clubs.

I'd bet a lot of money on James Morrison finishing the season as our Head Coach, just like Big Dave did.

[Slick_Footwork]

We really need to be looking at resigning Gareth Barry to add some energy and pace to our midfield...

In all seriousness, I'm not happy with Big Sam's selections so far, which is a bit embarrassing after championing him so much for the job. The selections pretty much mimic his inept predecessor. For me it's blatantly obvious that we don't have the quality to outplay teams so we need to move to a more industrial line up, get as many big blokes in as possible, play direct, play the percentages.

Play to other teams weaknesses.

But what I will say is that we have very little quality at our disposal and I can't blame Big Sam for that.

It's not his fault we have only 1 right back at the club who is a bog average championship player. The fact we don't have a single defensive midfielder at the club. The fact that all but one of our "forwards" are really wingers and don't make any attempt to get onto balls into the box. The fact the only proper striker we have is completely immobile. The fact we decided to spend £40m in the summer on a load of wingers, none of which have top flight experience.

But that said, the changes need to be rung...

There is little point persisting with Grady who is a non entity. Saywers doesn't have the energy to play in a 2 man midfield, so if Pereira plays, Ajayi must be pushed forward.

But that said, the reality is that we're just desperately short of Premier League quality. The only experienced Premier League player we have who has a willing mentality is several years past his best. The only decent full back we have is always injured, and even his quality is questionable. Not one of the "exciting young creative players" we have signed have convinced me they are good enough to play at this level. Our star player has the pace of a snail. I'm starting to think it's a task too far for any manager without mass incomings asap.

You’re right, Slick, your championing of Allardyce is now somewhat embarrassing. You describe Bilic is “inept” and I would challenge your use of that in the way you challenged me for describing Ivanovic as “appalling”. However, if you’re going to describe Bilic as inept, you’re going to have to apply it now to Allardyce. The guy is indeed inept.
Accepting he has to use the players at his disposal, we were lead to believe that there would be an undoubted improvement over Bilic’s team of sloppy defending, baffling selections and substitutions, and tactical naivety. There is absolutely no improvement and, as regards defending, I would argue we have gone backwards. There is no discernible shape or pattern to our play, it is totally aimless. I await with interest the players Allardyce brings in during January...interest but no expectation.

My description of Bilic being inept is based on the fact he assembled this useless squad after managing us for well over a year and knowing exactly what our players were capable of. Despite overseeing a massive capitulation at the end of last season, he pushed signing the same players saying they were more suited to the Premier League. Because a squad with no speed, no strength and no heart is exactly what you need to scrap in the Premier League. Seriously, did anyone think after getting promoted in the summer that we would start this campaign with Sawyers, Furlong and the like? The fact Bilic failed to identify that our spine was too weak for this league showed how out of depth he is as a Premier League coach. He had no idea of what is required to compete at this level. The only player he signed with any defensive capability is the bloke you describe as appalling, so that just about sums up Bilic's lack of awareness of the speed of the Premier League.

I don't see why I would have to apply the same tag to Allardyce yet, when he's had 4 games in charge and 2 days of a transfer window. He has to earn that inept tag with poor decision after poor decision. I don't give it out willy nilly.

For me we're no better or worse than under Bilic right now. The Liverpool game was by the far the best performance of the season, while Leeds was by far the worst. Today's first half showing was pretty dreadful and is fresh in the mind. Allardyce obviously hasn't been helped by the players in his handful of games he's managed - Livermore sent off against Villa, Sawyers scoring a wonder own goal to break our resistance against Leeds, Ajayi trying to emulate him today and putting an Arsenal goal on a plate when we were finally starting to compete in the 2nd half. No manager can rid duff players of those errors. But for me we haven't had any style, identity or pattern of play since the whistle below to kick off against Leicester on the first day of the season.

As for the embarrassment I'm facing for Sam not having the instant impact I expected when touting him, I'm used to it. This spineless West Brom team have been embarrassing me all year. The Villa fans at work have done nothing but take the p*ss since we conceded 3 on the opening day, 5 on the second day and so on... And why not, I did exactly the same last year when they were a soft side conceding hand over first every week last season. Little did I know at the time that we would accumulate a squad so divide strength, pride and ability that we would go on to make that Villa team look like world beaters. I actually thought the duo of Bilic and Dowling knew what they were doing back then.

My only hope is that with a window, Allardyce proves me right. At the very least, even if we are relegated I hope we're able to compete in games between January and the end of the season. Have the athleticism to press and lay a glove on the opposition. I'm absolutely certain Sam will identify players with more experience, heart and pride than what we've got. But i'm just worried that he'll not be backed and that will be the real reason why those fans who have been against Allardyce from day one will be able to say "I told you so" at the end of the season. But if I am wrong and he proves to be dreadful, I will admit it.

---

Agree, its Allardyce who is inept.  We weren't this bad under Bilic.
Yes it's Bilic's squad, but let's be fair, he was given little support from the owner.  Not saying he didn't make mistakes,  he did and plenty of them. But Allardyce is far worse.
Personally I'd get rid of the dinosaur now, he is clearly out of touch.  We are getting relegated so lets get a young new head coach in now and start building a young exciting team for next season. Give the new man a chance to see what we've got (albeit not much) and give him time and money to build for the future.

I'd suggest you rewatch our performance away at Fulham, if you think we were better under Bilic.

I was in Turkey for that game and we had to walk miles to find a bar showing it. I convinced the Mrs it would be worth it. Then we lost 2-0 and didn't even have a shot on target. We made Anguissa in their midfield look like Lionel Messi.

Memories are short.

Our squad is an absolute shambles. Let's give the man a transfer window and see what happens.

---

Right now I see Allardyce's time at the club going the same way as Pardew's did. The expectation of an immediate upturn in results hits the reality of a squad built to play a certain way, which doesn't suit the new guy's own style, and a Head Coach who is stuck in his old ways which has worked with other clubs.

I'd bet a lot of money on James Morrison finishing the season as our Head Coach, just like Big Dave did.

I believe Allardyce was employed specifically for his style, to stop us being such an easy opponent.

But certainly it looks a bridge too far to stabilise us with this squad. We make too many mistakes. Far too open in midfield. No legs, no defensive awareness. So unless he's heavily backed in Jan, your prediction is probably going to be spot on.

Although I think as a squad built to play 'total football' its well out of its depth to do so. We saw similar under Tony Mowbray where we were promoted and tried to play total football in the Premier League and got picked apart because we didn't have any stoppers in midfield or experience at the back. And that Mowbray squad was miles better than this one. This squad is built to play a certain way, but not capable of winning games with it.

[Arcane Astral Aeons]

eventually we will run out things to describe this season

we have conceded more under sam than slaven
but on a fun note  it fun to listen to his pathetic after match interviews
talk about stating the bloody obvious
your the xxxx manager ya thick twat
have been bunged a few quid from dingleland to get us relegated?
well hand it back we were relegation fodder before you showed up

worse g/d in all four leagues
worst attempts/shots on goal

relegate us now  save us from further humiliation  
get rid of this jabba the hutt lookalike

or can we set him up for another bung scandal  save us a few quid

as for the transfer window.....bloody owners need throwing through one
we are a joke
but we can still have a giggle cant we
losing is fun right now
what we going to say if we actually win a game

[Baggievicar]

To be fair (and because it's a match thread) the first 2 goals yesterday were absolute crackers.