[Slick_Footwork]

Not knocking your opinion Slick - will just agree to disagree.

My point about the timing was that the decision was made before last night and if you’re right that they kept Slav & co to manage the team at Man City then that’s unforgivable hence my theory that they’d have been somewhere up in the stands wanting us to get beat.

Who knows if it was as sinister as that or not. If it was, then it's backfired after picking up a point and given Allardyce a tougher start as it's raised expectation.

That said, it will help in that he will be able to see we are better with 4 at the back than with the 5 that Bilic insisted on for so long. Why he kept persisting with that is beyond me.

---

He cares about his own wallet more than his reputation. You talk about his achievements but he’s usually been given plenty of money to spend, even if the club didn’t have any at the time. Bolton’s bankruptcy wasn’t entirely his fault - their Board at the time should have been strong enough to call his bluff about resigning rather than give in to his demands - but his time there came at a massive cost to the club.

Wallet and reputation goes hand in hand, the better job you do, the more you get paid. If that's the motivating factor then so it. Seems to be the motivating for lots of people in all warps of life.

In my honest opinion, staying in the league is absolutely paramount, particularly this season. Going down could lead to freefall, given the fact we have players out of contract, high earners, players who have been signed on higher purchase. For all his faults, Lai did do a reasonable job of financing our 2 seasons in the Championship by keeping hold of some high earners like Hegazi, Livermore, Gibbs, Rodriguez and such. And even though we had to release Rondon, he shelled out a lot of wages for the incoming loans of Gayle and Murphy. Mark Jenkins at the time said that model wasn't sustainable beyond 2 years, had we not been promoted in the summer we would've been decimated. Loanees would've returned to parent clubs, anyone on a decent salary would've been stripped. We would probably be scrapping against relegation with a team of academy grads!

If we go down this year, I do fear freefall given the financial implications of covid. In my childhood days as a fan we were languishing in the doldrums, and it wasn't enjoyable watching the likes of Micky Mellon and Stacey Caldicott week in and week out. I remember thinking we would never make it to the top flight. I do fear those fans who say "I would rather watch us in the Championship with a likeable manager" have forgotten those dark days. I personally hope they never return and even the dross we have been served up at times in the Premiership, for me, is hands down better than being hammered in the lower league.

I do talk about big Sam's achievements because that's what I base his suitability for the job for. You're right that he's spent money in his roles, but he's not wasted it like Pulis did at Stoke. He was responsible for bringing the likes of Milivojevic to Palace, who is now the club captain. He took Nzonzi to Blackburn, who shortly after went to Sevilla and become one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe. His signing of Khazri for Sunderland basically kept them up. Okay, he spent a lot at Bolton (primarily on salary rather than fees) but he left them 5th in the Premier League. Bolton's financial problems came years after he left and they actually broke their transfer record later, under Gary Megson, if I recall. So I don't really think he can be held accountable for any poor money management at Bolton that happened during and certainly beyond his time.

Hopefully he's come with assurances that he's got some cash to spend here, because we desperately need to invest in a few areas that Bilic was blind to in the summer.

[WBA-Josh]

I think this would have gone down differently with Mark Jenkins still at the club. Slaven alone would have been sacked after Palace and the rest of his staff would have stayed on for the Man City game. Then the Allardyce appointment would come the next day and it would be clean and smooth.

[Zinman]

During the early 2000s my boss was a good friend of a Bolton director. They knew they were in financial trouble but Allardyce threatened to resign if they didn’t continue to back him (at that point, he was actually popular amongst Bolton fans). They chose to go further into debt but, in his own words, they knew they were ####ed if they ever got relegated. Deep in a hole, they kept digging in a desperate attempt to stay in the Premier League, until ........

[Stairs]

I think Slick makes some good points.

- If we want rid of the owner then we need to be a Premier League Team to get the value up to a level where a sale is acceptable to Lai. Big Sam must be seen as the best bet to insure that.

- To sell to club by staying up needs to be shored up by spending money. So at least we will get some grit injected into the spine of the team in January. Maybe even early January for once to make an earlier impact on the pitch.

This looks like a tidy the house up before selling it action and if getting Big Sam in results in a stronger squad, winning games and getting a new owner of the club.

I am all in.

[drewks]

I think Slick makes some good points.

- If we want rid of the owner then we need to be a Premier League Team to get the value up to a level where a sale is acceptable to Lai. Big Sam must be seen as the best bet to insure that.

- To sell to club by staying up needs to be shored up by spending money. So at least we will get some grit injected into the spine of the team in January. Maybe even early January for once to make an earlier impact on the pitch.

This looks like a tidy the house up before selling it action and if getting Big Sam in results in a stronger squad, winning games and getting a new owner of the club.

I am all in.

Yup, all very valid, especially (HOPEFULLY) the last paragraph.

Some great points made in many posts above; I'm latching on to the one (Slick?) that reminds us of that really entertaining Bolton team of around 2000 with JJ Ocotcha. What a player he was! (Still got his number Sam, I'm sure he could STILL do a job for us!)
As much as I like SB I can see his time was up. Let's move forward with a bit of optimism now.

On the subject of the much maligned Tony Pulis, wasn't he Manager of the Year when he was appointed? And yes - he did a great job for the first year or so, so it wasn't all bad.
I always found him quite entertaining too!

Happy Christmas to all!

[BaggieSteve]

I think Slick makes some good points.

- If we want rid of the owner then we need to be a Premier League Team to get the value up to a level where a sale is acceptable to Lai. Big Sam must be seen as the best bet to insure that.

- To sell to club by staying up needs to be shored up by spending money. So at least we will get some grit injected into the spine of the team in January. Maybe even early January for once to make an earlier impact on the pitch.

This looks like a tidy the house up before selling it action and if getting Big Sam in results in a stronger squad, winning games and getting a new owner of the club.

I am all in.

Yup, all very valid, especially (HOPEFULLY) the last paragraph.

Some great points made in many posts above; I'm latching on to the one (Slick?) that reminds us of that really entertaining Bolton team of around 2000 with JJ Ocotcha. What a player he was! (Still got his number Sam, I'm sure he could STILL do a job for us!)
As much as I like SB I can see his time was up. Let's move forward with a bit of optimism now.

On the subject of the much maligned Tony Pulis, wasn't he Manager of the Year when he was appointed? And yes - he did a great job for the first year or so, so it wasn't all bad.
I always found him quite entertaining too!

Happy Christmas to all!

You only liked him cuz he was ‘aaard! Merry Christmas to you too,

[Salopbaggie]

I think Slick makes some good points.

- If we want rid of the owner then we need to be a Premier League Team to get the value up to a level where a sale is acceptable to Lai. Big Sam must be seen as the best bet to insure that.

- To sell to club by staying up needs to be shored up by spending money. So at least we will get some grit injected into the spine of the team in January. Maybe even early January for once to make an earlier impact on the pitch.

This looks like a tidy the house up before selling it action and if getting Big Sam in results in a stronger squad, winning games and getting a new owner of the club.

I am all in.

Yup, all very valid, especially (HOPEFULLY) the last paragraph.

Some great points made in many posts above; I'm latching on to the one (Slick?) that reminds us of that really entertaining Bolton team of around 2000 with JJ Ocotcha. What a player he was! (Still got his number Sam, I'm sure he could STILL do a job for us!)
As much as I like SB I can see his time was up. Let's move forward with a bit of optimism now.

On the subject of the much maligned Tony Pulis, wasn't he Manager of the Year when he was appointed? And yes - he did a great job for the first year or so, so it wasn't all bad.
I always found him quite entertaining too!

Happy Christmas to all!

A couple of points here, the first being if we were a successful Premier League club why would the owner want to sell? The whole purpose of him buying the club in the first place was to own a successful club. On Big Sam's history. He may have created an OK Bolton team, apparently he also threatened to walk if the club did not go into debt to back his transfer plans, we all know how well that worked out. He also ran into problems with BBC's Panorama when they produced evidence of him paying bribes to agents, or him having to resign as England manager after only 67 days after being filmed giving advice on how to 'get around' player 3rd party ownership. The F.A. also investigated him for some dodgy transfer dealings with Luton and we all know the way the F.A. work if your in the know

[Slick_Footwork]

During the early 2000s my boss was a good friend of a Bolton director. They knew they were in financial trouble but Allardyce threatened to resign if they didn’t continue to back him (at that point, he was actually popular amongst Bolton fans). They chose to go further into debt but, in his own words, they knew they were ####ed if they ever got relegated. Deep in a hole, they kept digging in a desperate attempt to stay in the Premier League, until ........

I think there were a lot of teams in that era doing the same thing, over financing.

Does sound a bit arsey, but that was commonplace at the time. I guess he was confident in his own ability and felt he could take them into the Champions League.

---

I think Slick makes some good points.

- If we want rid of the owner then we need to be a Premier League Team to get the value up to a level where a sale is acceptable to Lai. Big Sam must be seen as the best bet to insure that.

- To sell to club by staying up needs to be shored up by spending money. So at least we will get some grit injected into the spine of the team in January. Maybe even early January for once to make an earlier impact on the pitch.

This looks like a tidy the house up before selling it action and if getting Big Sam in results in a stronger squad, winning games and getting a new owner of the club.

I am all in.

Yup, all very valid, especially (HOPEFULLY) the last paragraph.

Some great points made in many posts above; I'm latching on to the one (Slick?) that reminds us of that really entertaining Bolton team of around 2000 with JJ Ocotcha. What a player he was! (Still got his number Sam, I'm sure he could STILL do a job for us!)
As much as I like SB I can see his time was up. Let's move forward with a bit of optimism now.

On the subject of the much maligned Tony Pulis, wasn't he Manager of the Year when he was appointed? And yes - he did a great job for the first year or so, so it wasn't all bad.
I always found him quite entertaining too!

Happy Christmas to all!

A couple of points here, the first being if we were a successful Premier League club why would the owner want to sell? The whole purpose of him buying the club in the first place was to own a successful club.  On Big Sam's history. He may have created an OK Bolton team, apparently he also threatened to walk if the club did not go into debt to back his transfer plans, we all know how well that worked out.  He also ran into problems with BBC's Panorama when they produced evidence of him paying bribes to agents, or him having to resign as England manager after only 67 days after being filmed giving advice on how to 'get around' player 3rd party ownership.  The F.A. also investigated him for some dodgy transfer dealings with Luton and we all know the way the F.A. work if your in the know      

I think the owner probably bought us with the intention of taking profits year after year, much like Jeremy Peace did. Unfortunately with relegation in his first year, it's not proved to be so easy.

I assume that if we were able to achieve reliable mid table obscurity in the Premier League, that would still be his intention. But with relegation in his first year and 2 seasons in the Championship, probably running at a heavy loss based on our wage bill, it's not proved to be the cash cow that he bought into. The murmurings of him wanting to sell seem to be too loud to be purely speculation. So I guess if we could scrape up this year by the skin of our teeth, enabling him to sell at a profit, he would do so.

As for the big Sam allegations, I don't think he did a lot wrong when in charge of England, but he was naive to the fact that he might've been set up. His actual advice was just factual truth about the 3rd party ownership situation. As for the bribe allegations, I don't like that or corruption generally, but I believe it's probably rife across the industry. That doesn't make it right, but I believe he's not alone.

If you look at how many managers sign players who are represented by the same agent, it's actually frightening. Wolves is one of the few widely publicised cases, where Nuno Espirito is represented by Jorge Mendes and so are most of the players he has signed. Because they have done well it all appears legit and might well be, but it would be extremely naive to dismiss that he's not getting his palm tickled for recommending players that benefit his agent financially for brokering the deal. It's a clear conflict of interest at the very least.

I also believe performance enhancing drug (PED) use is probably rife within players too. It's just a matter of time before that comes out and while 1 player will probably be dug out for it, the reality is that they are all at it. I mean there was a story that a handful of Premier League players were caught for it last season, but it was okay because it was for 'therapeutic' reasons (i.e. given by doctor prescription). Anyone who knows anything about PEDs - which I happen to - knows that young pro footballers do not have naturally low testosterone. They simply wouldn't have made it this far in the game. But the reality is, football doesn't want to outlaw this drug use that would make the game slower, potentially ban names who attract big sponsorships and such.

And that's why the allegations don't really bother me. Everyone is a dodgy crook. I'm only concerned with his ability to get the best out of lads and hopefully keep us up.

[Salopbaggie]

As for the big Sam allegations, I don't think he did a lot wrong when in charge of England, but he was naive to the fact that he might've been set up. His actual advice was just factual truth about the 3rd party ownership situation. As for the bribe allegations, I don't like that or corruption generally, but I believe it's probably rife across the industry. That doesn't make it right, but I believe he's not alone.

Slick, I hope if I ever get done for a criminal offence, that you can be the judge   You can't be set up, if you do not do anything wrong.  The very fact that he negotiated a £400,000 fee before giving the advice on how to get around the player 3rd party ownership, does not strike me as a mate giving another mate advice.  Even if it was, what would be said if it was someone giving advice to a burglar on how to get around a house alarm system.  The point is it was advice given by the England manager on how to break the F.A. rules, advice he charged a lot of money for.

As for everybody being 'at it', that may very well be true, but as I heard so many time from my great granny, "well two wrongs don't make a right" .

[valpayne]

I’m actually quite optimistic for the first time in years.
I’m pleased we didn’t eff about trying to find a replacement for once we’ve been there before and it didn’t turn out well.
I think Slav deserved better but the facts are we went well off the boil results wise in the latter part of the championship not just the prem. in fact we would still be there if Brentford hadn’t choked at the death
I actually thought we would get Big bad naughty on the fiddle Sam years ago and I was as optimistic then as I am now but I believe we ended up with Irvine or Mel at the time and that really wasn’t our finest hour
I’m afraid I’m gonna have to hold my hands up and say there’s very few managers out there right now I’d rather have than Allardyce who let’s face it has 512 prem games under his belt that’s a lot of experience for the level we are currently at and like pulls this guy can keep teams up.
Football is rife with corruption of all kinds coz money talks so that doesn’t worry me in the slightest I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out coz I reall believe we have half a chance of staying up now ??