[BaggieSteve]

So many opinions, but lets be honest we could sack SB 10 times and it would not fix our problems.  Firstly, we are a year ahead of schedule in the grand plan, the team is like one of those Spanish hotels in the seventies, open for business, but with building work going on all over it.  Lets not forget the way SB has been undermined by the owner and board throughout, yes they got him the loans from last season plus Grant and the old man, but I would bet SB's shopping list was a lot longer than that.  Then they go selling first team players without his knowledge.

People seem to forget at the start of the season we were all complaining about the positions which needed strengthening and they still have not been, so in reality we are playing with a team that could not win the Championship plus Grant and the old man, who with respect Harry Kane is not going to lose to much sleep about being challenged for his job and as for Ivanovic he was a world class player, emphasise on 'was'.  

As good as Bilic is, he is not Jesus who apparently could feed 5,000 with 5 loaves and 2 fish and the problems we have now, are still the same as when we were talking about them pre-season, we are short of quality in some positions, more importantly now, the players we do have, are running on zero confidence.  Understandable when you are facing some teams who have players who are worth around the same value as our entire squad, you keep losing and you know that the only way you stand any chance of competing with teams like that is with a good balance in your squad and a bit of luck.  We have neither.

We also need to be honest about who we would and could get to replace SB, we are not going to get anyone of proven quality, unless Sir Alex decides to make a comeback.  We will end up sacking a manager who may be able to do something and replace them with who?  What is the point of thinking ""well they might do a better job", if you can not replace SB with someone who, given all the restraints of being the manager of West Bromwich Albion, you can put your hand I your heart and say "I really believe this person could do a better job" then what is the point?  As my grannie used to say "Be careful you ain't jumping out the frying pan into the fire".

Well said, Salop. Like most of us, I'm not sure whether sacking Slaven would make a huge difference and, again like most others, I recognise that he's had precious little help from the Board. I'm not sure the transfers he has made have been the best use of the available money but again, with very little money to use, it's unsurprising he fell back upon those players he knew and who did a good job for us last season. I understand his thinking behind signing Ivanovic - provide some guidance to an EPL inexperienced defence - but the reality is that he's a liability. His signing of Grant has yet to come off but hopefully it will and, in all honesty, what we paid was all we could afford for a striker - I'd have preferred Ollie Watkins but he was way out of our price range. Perhaps we could have tried harder for Gayle but that's history.
If the replacement options include Allardyce, I think I'll stop watching - this would be such a retrograde step for the club, I find it hard to believe anyone would contemplate it.

[Salopbaggie]

For those who are still convinced Bilic is a good manager.
A Irvine managed 22 games won 5 drew 6
S Bilic's last 22 games has won 3 drawn 6

If you read this in conjunction with my post above about the quality of players we brought in. In a thread 4 months ago, people were asking, if SB would quit the club if they did not get some of the extra players, we were after in addition to the loanees, one poster (you may remember who ) said in relation to our inability to get the players we wanted/needed.

"It would be a monumental fiasco if Bilic quit. For everyone and the club."

So what has changed, other than SB did not get the extra players we were trying to sign and failed?

[Baggiebob(BBB)]

I can't see getting rid of Bilic will achieve anything.
Why? Well a new manager will have same problems, being no money to make it a better team, result zero.

Needs new owners to splash the cash.

Yesterday watching BBC both pundits said we played the ball around nicely when we drew 1-1 and pressing, but no real forward thrust on goal - needs more Gallagher style play by the team. Then applauded Bilic replacing 2 forwards at half time to do this, and then caught with a superb counter punch

WE played so well against Spurs, so why change that team

[Blue Baggie]

For those who are still convinced Bilic is a good manager.
A Irvine managed 22 games won 5 drew 6
S Bilic's last 22 games has won 3 drawn 6

If you read this in conjunction with my post above about the quality of players we brought in.  In a thread 4 months ago, people were asking, if SB would quit the club if they did not get some of the extra players, we were after in addition to the loanees, one poster (you may remember who ) said in relation to our inability to get the players we wanted/needed.

"It would be a monumental fiasco if Bilic quit. For everyone and the club."

So what has changed, other than SB did not get the extra players we were trying to sign and failed?

That was then, this is now. An important question your ignoring. Bilic may not be with us next season. He may decide to leave, we certainly haven't made an attempt to extend his contract. 
Bilic IMO continues to make mistakes every week. I don't believe he is getting the best from our players, this has again IMO been a problem for almost a year now. 
We need to change what we are doing and how we do it. I can't see Bilic doing that so we need someone else to make those changes. 
If you or anyone else believe our players aren't good enough, let's just give up now.
I don't aspire to giving up. We hope and believe that's what's makes us a family of supporters.
Bilic is a fine upstanding person and I like the guy, but sadly we have to move on. 
Pearson / Shaky or Cook sooner rather then later for me.

[Slick_Footwork]

I think the points raised are valid, with this set of players, any manager would have a tough job.

It's perfectly feasible we could sack Bilic and not do any better.

And I think we would all be in full agreement that he hasn't been well backed by the board...

But my cross argument for that is that Bilic is largely responsible for assembling this disjointed squad. He openly said all summer that Krovinovic was the top target, which I thought at the time was totally ludicrous and posted as much. When you go into the Premiership with little budget, the last thing you want to do is waste a precious loan deal on a player who was bit part at Championship level. And while I think he's a decent squad player to have at this level, did we really need another of this type with Sawyers at the club and Gallagher who also operated as a number 10 incoming? For me it was crying out for a proper defensive midfielder and Bilic was blind to the fact. If I'm being honest, I think this move was purely to please Pereira, which seems ridiculous in professional football. This isn't under 15's.

Then we shelled out over £30m for Diangana and Grant who both operated on the left wing last year. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking either of these transfers individually, I was personally chuffed when we signed Grady as I thought it was a signal of intent. Grant also may well prove to be a good signing in time. BUT... if you know the club has a limited budget, do you go for 2 left wingers for big money when there are clear problems in other area? Namely full back or defensive midfield? For me that's a poor decision. For me you strengthen the spine of the team first and top up with luxuries on loan as there are always plenty of young wingers available. Look at Fulham, they grabbed Adamola Lookman on loan and he has had more Premier League experience than Grady.

And finally, we need to ask ourselves, is Bilic picking the best team with the admittedly limited quality we have available? Is he getting the lads up for it?

My answer on both accounts is no.

With the exception of the Spurs game, which we were unfortunate to lose, I don't think we have had a good 90 minutes performance. We have had a couple of decent 45 minute spells which which were before or after a dreadful half.

Losing a 3 goal lead to Chelsea was pathetic. The way we turned up to play Fulham was a joke from start to finish. The second half capitulation against Sheffield United was incredible and it was their bad finishing that won us that game, not our ability to keep a clean sheet. The reaction to the sending off against Palace was simply embarrassing. While I could accepted defeat in that game, to simply crumble with 10 is a joke. Every other team in this league would at least keep things reasonable with 10, but no team has a weaker spine than we do. Finally to play a Newcastle team missing half a dozen players including their captain, talisman and having to field midfielders at the back and not even come out of the blocks isn't good enough.

And Bilic's failure to motivate the lads isn't something new. It dates back to last season when we failed to beat Blues, Blackburn, Huddersfield and QPR when Promotion was ours to grab.

So while I am in 100% agreement that he hasn't been dealt the best cards, for me it's clear that he is failing to do his job to a satisfactory standard.

I also think there is evidence of a fallout / bad blood with some players. I mean, what other reason can there be for selecting Matt Phillips to play at wing back when Gibbs is fit other than a fallout? Phillips was never good defensively even when protecting a full back, so how is he going to be good enough to play wing back? No shock when he was ball watching for Almiron's goal yesterday because he isn't a player with any defensive awareness. The decision to play these square pegs in round holes has to land with Bilic.

[wba13]

I’ve backed Bilic right up until the palace match, But Blue baggie is right we need to change. We cannot defend it only needs some organisation but I fear Bilic and his coaches cannot do this. I will not blame Grant to much because we create next to nothing. Bilic used to be great with his subs but it has shown in the last 5 months they rarely effect the match and often make us worse. If you think that there are none better out there you are wrong. Most Managers with Bilic record since lockdown would have been long gone. The man I like the manager is like the West Ham fans said good for 12 months then went backwards very quickly.

[Stairs]

For those who are still convinced Bilic is a good manager.
A Irvine managed 22 games won 5 drew 6
S Bilic's last 22 games has won 3 drawn 6

Wow - I hated Irvine with a passion and so horrified to put anyone in the same category as him.

I think this season it has all gone wrong for me. The application of VAR, the stupid handball rules (with alternate in interpretation) and the sickening constant ‘simulation’ aka cheating.

Football feels dead to me right now. A new manager and ownership might revive my enthusiasm and love for football again.

Bring it on!

[drewks]

For those who are still convinced Bilic is a good manager.
A Irvine managed 22 games won 5 drew 6
S Bilic's last 22 games has won 3 drawn 6

Wow - I hated Irvine with a passion and so horrified to put anyone in the same category as him.

I think this season it has all gone wrong for me. The application of VAR, the stupid handball rules (with alternate in interpretation) and the sickening constant ‘simulation’ aka cheating.

Football feels dead to me right now. A new manager and ownership might revive my enthusiasm and love for football again.

Bring it on!

I'm exactly the same, Stairs. I went off the PL several years ago, and only had ANY interest in our games. The last couple of seasons in the Championship have been OK in my eyes, but I didn't have 1% of interest in the PL during this time. Now we're back I'm afraid I still have about the same interest when I see the cheating, the feigning of injuries, the ridiculous VAR decisions etc etc. And when we seem to be on the receiving end of most, well it's the final straw.
I really want us to win, to hold our own, but without the financial clout that seems to be needed at this level (another thing that grabs my goat) it seems to me to be nigh on impossible.

Hey ho. The 6 Nations starts soon!

[BaggieSteve]

For those who are still convinced Bilic is a good manager.
A Irvine managed 22 games won 5 drew 6
S Bilic's last 22 games has won 3 drawn 6

Wow - I hated Irvine with a passion and so horrified to put anyone in the same category as him.

I think this season it has all gone wrong for me. The application of VAR, the stupid handball rules (with alternate in interpretation) and the sickening constant ‘simulation’ aka cheating.

Football feels dead to me right now. A new manager and ownership might revive my enthusiasm and love for football again.

Bring it on!

I'm exactly the same, Stairs. I went off the PL several years ago, and only had ANY interest in our games. The last couple of seasons in the Championship have been OK in my eyes, but I didn't have 1% of interest in the PL during this time. Now we're back I'm afraid I still have about the same interest when I see the cheating, the feigning of injuries, the ridiculous VAR decisions etc etc. And when we seem to be on the receiving end of most, well it's the final straw.
I really want us to win, to hold our own, but without the financial clout that seems to be needed at this level (another thing that grabs my goat) it seems to me to be nigh on impossible.

Hey ho. The 6 Nations starts soon!

Drewks, I’m totally with you. I hate the EPL with a passion; I hate the ridiculous money swilling around in it, I hate the focus on six clubs only with the rest just there to make up fixtures, I hate the patronising attitude to us ‘smaller’ clubs, I hate the fact that no other league counts when you read the Press, I hate the unarguable bias by officials in favour of the bigger clubs...and I detest VAR. I would happily spend every season in the Championship, win it, get the money...and then stay in the Championship. Of course I don’t want us to get relegated because that equals failure but, if/when we do, I’ll look forward to next season a whole lot more than if we’d stayed up.
If that sounds defeatist, then apologies but I just loathe the feckin EPL

[Beefy 1965]

Anything under 4 tonight should be a bonus ...
Anyway
What time do the Albion kick off ?

Every five minutes, eh lads