[drewks]

Poor from Bilic and the players today.

I really don't think it's time to be experimenting with a new formation in a tough competitive game.

IMO it was a selection made with fear. Leicester were patched together at the back, so sacrificing a forward player for another defender made no sense.

It worked for a while in terms of keeping us 'steady' but as soon as they scored the game was over. We could've played all night and not scored.

We really need an athletic defensive minded midfielder on the books to enable us to play 2/3 creative players in a 5 man midfield (Krov, Grady, Pereira).

I never thought I'd say this, but if Livermore gets injured we will be absolutely screwed. If we have to go with Sawyers and Harper against 3 midfielders, we will get massacred as neither have any defensive awareness. Saywers is a good quarter back if he has options in front of him, but I just don't see what Harper adds. He doesn't tackle, doesn't track, doesn't create, doesn't score. I'd sooner have Field in there because at least he gets around the pitch and plugs the gaps. We really need new blood in this position though. Yet the player we are linked with - Gallager - is yet another attacking midfielder. I don't get it...

We're also desperate for a proper striker and some decent full backs. Not sure if Grant is the man as he was playing on the wing when I watched Huddersfield last season. We have an abundance of wing forwards, IMO we're crying out for a proper number 9 who has some presence but is also mobile (hence not Charlie Austin). Don't see the point in Deeney as he's just another Austin. Could barely run last season and while he takes a good penalty, we're not going to get into the opposition box to win one on this evidence.

I think we all maybe see the problems differently, Slick. For me, Gallagher is exactly the type of player we need - a midfielder who will run with the ball and inject some pace. I’m fine with Livermore playing the defensive tackling midfielder a la Yacob but I have no idea what Sawyers brings to the team. It’s interesting you seem him as a quarterback because I see none of that in him. For me, the quarterback controls the game and dictates the play but I see none of that in Sawyers, nor any desire in him to do so. I see a player with no pace, lethargic, unwilling to run with the ball - he’d rather play the simple, non threatening, non creative ball two yards to the back four. I cannot see Sawyers ever doing anything to change a game. It’s easy to get dispirited after a big home defeat and we have to keep things in perspective but I feel we have a huge two weeks coming up for transfers and, for me, that has to include a dynamic midfielder

Exactly my view too!

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

Wasting your money with Grant. Only scored 4 for us in the Premier League.

That's four more than we've scored so far this season!

[Slick_Footwork]

Poor from Bilic and the players today.

I really don't think it's time to be experimenting with a new formation in a tough competitive game.

IMO it was a selection made with fear. Leicester were patched together at the back, so sacrificing a forward player for another defender made no sense.

It worked for a while in terms of keeping us 'steady' but as soon as they scored the game was over. We could've played all night and not scored.

We really need an athletic defensive minded midfielder on the books to enable us to play 2/3 creative players in a 5 man midfield (Krov, Grady, Pereira).

I never thought I'd say this, but if Livermore gets injured we will be absolutely screwed. If we have to go with Sawyers and Harper against 3 midfielders, we will get massacred as neither have any defensive awareness. Saywers is a good quarter back if he has options in front of him, but I just don't see what Harper adds. He doesn't tackle, doesn't track, doesn't create, doesn't score. I'd sooner have Field in there because at least he gets around the pitch and plugs the gaps. We really need new blood in this position though. Yet the player we are linked with - Gallager - is yet another attacking midfielder. I don't get it...

We're also desperate for a proper striker and some decent full backs. Not sure if Grant is the man as he was playing on the wing when I watched Huddersfield last season. We have an abundance of wing forwards, IMO we're crying out for a proper number 9 who has some presence but is also mobile (hence not Charlie Austin). Don't see the point in Deeney as he's just another Austin. Could barely run last season and while he takes a good penalty, we're not going to get into the opposition box to win one on this evidence.

I think we all maybe see the problems differently, Slick. For me, Gallagher is exactly the type of player we need - a midfielder who will run with the ball and inject some pace. I’m fine with Livermore playing the defensive tackling midfielder a la Yacob but I have no idea what Sawyers brings to the team. It’s interesting you seem him as a quarterback because I see none of that in him. For me, the quarterback controls the game and dictates the play but I see none of that in Sawyers, nor any desire in him to do so. I see a player with no pace, lethargic, unwilling to run with the ball - he’d rather play the simple, non threatening, non creative ball two yards to the back four. I cannot see Sawyers ever doing anything to change a game. It’s easy to get dispirited after a big home defeat and we have to keep things in perspective but I feel we have a huge two weeks coming up for transfers and, for me, that has to include a dynamic midfielder

I think Sawyers was excellent last season and the main reason we were able to convert from a counter attacking team under Darren Moore to a possession based team under Bilic. Always available, always wanting the ball, accurate with his passing. I think it's a disservice to him to say he always plays the simple ball, he played countless passes into the man in the hole last season. He was generally the pass before the assist.

That said, I don't think he's athletic enough to play in a midfield 2 at this level and hence my desire for an athletic defensive minded midfielder to play as a pivot with Livermore.

I see Sawyers role this season as either someone you bring on from the bench when winning to keep hold of the ball OR the 3rd man in a midfield 3 in the games where you need to leave out a number 10 to steady the ship. I think we need someone who really understands how to shield the defence alongside Livermore. For me this would be #1 priority and would've been all summer. You need to be robust in this division and protect the defence.

So all in all, I think Sawyers does have something to offer. That said, he wouldn't be first choice. Harper on the other hand wouldn't be anywhere near the team as he's equally as languid as Sawyers but without the ball playing ability.

As for Gallagher, I'm not against him coming, but for me he's another attacking midfielder who will play in the same position as Krovinovic (number 10 role). I don't see him as the Sawyers replacement. I don't understand the desire to sign both Krovinovic and Gallagher when we don't have a proper defensive minded midfielder at the club (for me this is priority). This is baring in mind we also have Pereira who can play as a number 10 and we have countless wingers (Phillips, Grady, Robinson, Grosicki, Edwards). It feels like Bilic has an obsession with attacking midfielders and is forgetting the fact you have to earn your right to play.

Now don't get me wrong, if Gallagher is an alternative to Krovinovic then that does make sense. But I absolutely don't think we need both. Seems like madness to me to have 8+ attacking midfielders and only 1 midfielder at the club who can sense danger and put a tackle in (Livermore). And I don't even feel Livermore is a defensive midfielder really, he isn't a sitter, he's more of a box to box player. He is the 'Mulumbu' of the 'Mulumbu and Yacob' partnership who hunts for the ball.

[Beefy 1965]

Wasting your money with Grant. Only scored 4 for us in the Premier League.

Liar liar your bums on fire

[drewks]

Good post Slick. It's interesting how we all see players differently; even last year I was completely uninspired by Sawyers, even when he wins the 'highest passing %' and or 'most touches' - to me they are virtually always the safe, sideways /backwards pass, hardly ever incisive or inventive.
I may well be wrong here, but he also (to me) always seems like he thinks he's got all the time in the world - when he hasn't! Far too casual in my mind.
This isn't a witch hunt - I really want him to succeed - I'm just frustrated by him because I think he HAS got talent!

[Slick_Footwork]

Good post Slick. It's interesting how we all see players differently; even last year I was completely uninspired by Sawyers, even when he wins the 'highest passing %' and or 'most touches' - to me they are virtually always the safe, sideways /backwards pass, hardly ever incisive or inventive.
I may well be wrong here, but he also (to me) always seems like he thinks he's got all the time in the world - when he hasn't! Far too casual in my mind.
This isn't a witch hunt - I really want him to succeed - I'm just frustrated by him because I think he HAS got talent!

I can see why you think that way about him, especially as he has a languid style that makes him look disinterested at times. I also agree with your point about him being too casual. His calmness would be admirable if it didn't carry so much risk as he's not the paciest when it comes to getting out of tight situations. I think he's just a natural footballer who is always looking to play and doesn't have it in his locker to just boot it, which can sometimes be to his detriment. This is why I don't think you can play him deep in midfield in the frantic pace of the Premier League. Lose the ball there and you're in the deep end.

The flip side of that is that I appreciate that he's always making passing lanes, always on, always wanting the ball. After 3 years of watching Tony Pulis football (followed by Shan's similar tactics), it was a breath of fresh air signing Sawyers and having a player who dictated the game. 'Quarterback' might've been a strong term, but he was the player who set the tempo of our play last season. When he played well, we did. I also think he's got a lot more vision than he's given credit for. His forward passes often go unnoticed as they are made from deep into areas where we can penetrate. Bilic opted for so many attacking midfielders last season that Sawyers rarely got into positions where he could provide the final assist, but he still made some mouth watering passes. Stoke away springs to mind.

It came as no surprise to me that our first loss at home last season (Boro) was when Bilic dropped Sawyers for some reason that only he will ever know...

All that said, this is now Premier League and there is no time for sentiment. So would I play him in a midfield 2? Absolutely not. I just don't think he has the pace / legs to cover the ground.

(I'd say he has a part to play as a squad player).

My worry is we don't have anyone at the club who can play in a midfield duo except for Livermore. Even if we sign Krov and Gallagher, they are both typically number 10s. We saw last year that Krov isn't the type of player to play in a midfield 2. We must be the only club in the Premier League who doesn't have a sitting midfielder on the books. Imagine if Livermore was injured and we have to start with Sawyers and Harper in there. Who is going to make a tackle when we're coming up against players like Grealish? We're absolutely desperate for a sitter in the middle of the park and I'm quite worried that our coach can't see it.

[Dingle-Dingle]

Hate to say it but to get anywhere in this league I think we need a Grealish. Someone who can fall over in the box type player.

DD

[drewks]

Hate to say it but to get anywhere in this league I think we need a Grealish. Someone who can fall over in the box type player.

DD    

[Salopbaggie]

OK so we were shown to need some work, but lets not forget we were playing a team which has finished in the top 6 in the best league in the world for the last 5 years. Of course we need to tighten up in areas, but I suspect we will need Chelsea out of the way before we start picking up any points. The one thing which needs to be sorted today is Bartley, I can not be the only one who was thinking last year "he is going to give a s**t load of penalties away next year, O'Shea's was understandable, Bartley's was not. I do think this is an issue for Championship defenders playing in the Premier League though, they forget there is always a camera on them. I am not suggesting droping him just a serious word in his shell like.

[wba1978]

Poor from Bilic and the players today.

I really don't think it's time to be experimenting with a new formation in a tough competitive game.

IMO it was a selection made with fear. Leicester were patched together at the back, so sacrificing a forward player for another defender made no sense.

It worked for a while in terms of keeping us 'steady' but as soon as they scored the game was over. We could've played all night and not scored.

We really need an athletic defensive minded midfielder on the books to enable us to play 2/3 creative players in a 5 man midfield (Krov, Grady, Pereira).

I never thought I'd say this, but if Livermore gets injured we will be absolutely screwed. If we have to go with Sawyers and Harper against 3 midfielders, we will get massacred as neither have any defensive awareness. Saywers is a good quarter back if he has options in front of him, but I just don't see what Harper adds. He doesn't tackle, doesn't track, doesn't create, doesn't score. I'd sooner have Field in there because at least he gets around the pitch and plugs the gaps. We really need new blood in this position though. Yet the player we are linked with - Gallager - is yet another attacking midfielder. I don't get it...

We're also desperate for a proper striker and some decent full backs. Not sure if Grant is the man as he was playing on the wing when I watched Huddersfield last season. We have an abundance of wing forwards, IMO we're crying out for a proper number 9 who has some presence but is also mobile (hence not Charlie Austin). Don't see the point in Deeney as he's just another Austin. Could barely run last season and while he takes a good penalty, we're not going to get into the opposition box to win one on this evidence.

Totally agree about Harper Slick.  Would like to see how Sam would have got on.  His stats at Charlton actually seemed quite good.

Bartley Shite.  Need a striker.  Pereira didn't have a sniff.

Was thinking Ivanovic at 36 was a waste of time... Maybe not now.

If not him, play Kipre. Anyone but Bartley!  

Conceding that penalty was just lazy!  How did he think he was gonna get away with it?!