[turkeydinner]

Long time fan so can remember Buchan/McQueen, Moran/McGrath, and the glory years of Bruce/Pallister, Johnsen/Stam and Vidic/Ferdinand as well as some very good names who did well in there `o Shea, Gary Neville, Brown, Evans and yes even David May

Certainly the partnerships I`d highlighted you always felt a degree a safety I guess the same at international level or club level if you had Hansen/Lawrenson, Miller/McLeish, Adams/Bould etc

Lot of focus recently about the grumpy one wanting new centre backs having only just spent £63 on two in two years, it`s a damn lot of money, quoting Davy Klaessen “In England, it’s all about the money – because it’s just there. Basically, the clubs can shop as they want.
“In Germany, this really big money is not there. The clubs are more concerned with developing an idea, a philosophy.

Ive little doubt that Lindeolf, Bailly have genuine talent and so do Rojo, Jones, Smalling, do I think the manager is getting the best out of them? Absolutely not and that's more an issue
They may not quite be Baresi class but nor do I think suddenly buying Toby Alderweireld would make things better, I mean I hardly saw huge bids for the grumpy one going in for Maguire when eighteen months ago he was at Hull City!
Gary Cahill has just stepped aside to let younger players in the England team but buying Tarkowski, Lascelles isnt going to suddenly shore up a defence to a fortress

For me the best defence ever even surpassing the great years of Serie A were "Boring Arsenal" , no huge signings in there but a goalie, back four and either Keown or O Leary as Libero drilling for hours and hours on end
Similarly Sacchi at Milan would play his goalie and back four against 11 players and they would never score against them, that includes Gullit and Van Basten

The Grumpy one thinks outspending everyone is the answer, not anymore it is, he has genuine talent as manager although I care not for his style and the whole thing of playing Herrera as a CB for effect would be like when England played Heskey on the wing in the hope England would produce a Ryan Giggs/Gareth Bale, mardy bugger.

[St Charles Owl]

Just about every one of those players you talk about either came through the ranks at the club or were brought in and then developed further by the manager. Mourinho has never shown much aptitude for taking a young player and making him better, he has generally bought the finished article and then put him in a team along with other expensive signing. Man Utd have never had to buy players for a potential sell on value but you only have to look at what otheer managers have done at the top of the PL by buying promising younger players and then turning them into better players - Benitez with Lascelles, Pep with Stones and Poch with the pair he has, sure they were all good players to start with and cost a lot of money as well but all have improved as players since they went to their current clubs, the grumpy one seems to have no interest in improving players he wants the finished article only.

[turkeydinner]

I swear sometimes LVG was in the employ of Liverpool(!) but still he was the guy who gave a chance to Blackett, Rashford, Wilson, Borthwick-Jackjson, Mensah, Perreira, Tuaznebe etc and gave Lingard and Powell a chance
Only McTominay thus far is a grumpy one promotion

Poch`s three CB marvels all were stars at Ajax! But very good class and moving to a tougher league, personally in that respect I`d prefer De Ligt, 19 years old than 29 year old Toby Aldy its an absolute no brainer as was Christian Eriksen

[0762]

LVG was a better manager than a lotta Man U fans gave him credit for. Also he managed United during a challenging period for the club. As you say, he nurtured a lotta young talent and that's no surprise as he had strong managerial roots with Ajax Amsterdam.

[St Charles Owl]

Looking back you have to say SAF got out at the right time and I reckon he knew what was on the horizon with regards to what was coming through their youth ranks and the amount of overhaul the squad was going to need.