[bluepooch]

Thats not what your missus told me Dancing !
Come on , you said you were realistic ,even you couldn't have predicted the disaster which followed the appointments of Caldwell and Lester. Also even you couldn't have failed to be ultra positive in the Paul Cook era .
MA is back in the office on Friday so Id like to see some announcements,I'm bored !
I guess the Word Cup may prove a minor distraction.

[spireitematt]

I didn't expect us to go out the league and it took me about 2 weeks to get over it.

Last time I felt really optimistic and thought we were going to do well was under Cook in L1, when Saunders came in I expected us to finish lower half of mid-table and we only just survived in L1 with a point or two. Season after with Caldwell I didn't expect us to stay up but knew that 3-5-2 wouldn't work in L1 or L2 (We're not Juventus or Chelsea)

When Jack came in as manager I thought we would finish about 18th and he would rebuild the next season to finish near the top 7. Now we are in the Vanarama I expect us to be in or around the top 7 but looking at clubs who have been relegated out of the league they finish in the lower-half or mid-table with a few exceptions like Cheltenham and Bristol Rovers.

By the way Dancing, you don't drive a BMW or an Audi do you?

[Dancingwilldoit]

No Matt I don't. Funnily enough I'm not into flash cars or status symbols. Mine gets me from A to B and down to Spain twice a year without fault and its big enough to carry plenty of wine and brandy. You wouldn't guess what it is in a million years but I can promise its not German.

[Devongone]

It's a cute little pretty gay Citroen.

Big flash cars do have something to do with sex and penises, but then so do trains going into tunnels (that's why so many trainspotters were aged 12, short-sighted and covered in acne).

Matt, I'm convinced any system can work at any level so long as you play it properly ....... but if the orchestra can't really play their instruments you end up like Eric Morecambe and Andre Previn. Don't make the mistake of thinking the lower divisions are tactically unsophisticated. I've taken a random April 2017 Vanarama Saturday and though nobody used 3-5-2, there were teams playing three at the back:-

Tranmere 3-4-1-2
Aldershot 4-2-3-1
Bromley 4-4-2
Barrow 4-4-1-1
Woking 5-3-2
Macclesfield 4-3-3
Lincoln 4-4-2
Torquay 4-5-1
Braintree 4-3-3
Guiseley 4-3-3
Dover 3-4-3
Southport 4-4-2
Forest Green 3-4-1-2
Chester 4-5-1
N Ferriby 4-4-2
Eastleigh 4-4-2
Solihull 4-4-2
York 3-4-3
Sutton 4-1-2-3
Gateshead 3-4-3
Wrexham 4-4-2
Maidstone 4-3-3
Halifax 4-3-3
Fylde 4-3-3

Many don't play the same system every week and will often choose either to match up their opponents or use a system they think will exploit a weakness.

3-5-2 would work as well in the Vanarama as anywhere IF you had the players to play it. If you have three ponderous centre backs, no great shakes at wing back and no ability to win the ball in midfield then ........... then the dodgy keeper you've mistakenly signed is going to be shown up big time. The truth is the absence of pace, power and guile in our squad meant there wasn't a system that would work. Passing the ball nicely is all very well, but if you watch the ultimate passers like Spain you'll see not only do they pass the opposition off the park - but also when they lose the ball they work harder than any opposition to win it back.

Pooch, Dancing did immediately say he thought Caldwell absolutely the wrong man for the job. He thought his experience didn't match the task in hand. He also said it was the wrong time to sack Danny as his experience and knowledge of the club gave him as good a chance as anyone of pulling us out of the tailspin. AND though he liked Jack Lester he also thought he was the wrong appointment. He was in favour of an experienced recovery man to keep us up - like Ronnie Moore - whereas my view of a Ronnie Moore was we'd have ended up like Hartlepool just delaying relegation for a season. I'd already given up on us staying up by the time Jack Lester arrived because the squad was so bizarre and the window was months away. So yes Dancing was completely right twice.

AND I, though I liked Paul Cook as a player and would happily have taken him as manager in other circumstances I was AGAINST him because of the dirty way we went about it. I'd rather play fair. In the end sneakily signing a manager or dirtily signing a Ched Evans seems to create an atmosphere in a club in which brief success is possible, but long-term you pay for it. Once you are Cheaterfield it's very hard to be Chesterfield.

[bluepooch]

We've had this debate before Dev and I still think Caldwell had the right credentials at the time .As for Jack ,he was a complete unknown and it could have gone one way or another ,every manager has to start somewhere and although it was a baptism of fire Jack felt he was up to it .He had the support of an experienced guy in Tommy Wright but yet again the recruitment in the January transfer window left a lot to be desired ,notable exception Ramsdale .
Recruitment is key to any teams success and it looks like MA is going for previous winners regardless of age ,which suggests proven mentally as well as physically strong players,something we have badly lacked in the last few seasons .
Jimmy Ryan was small but tenacious in the tackle and Morsy was like a bull and when they left we never replaced them ,maybe Wedgebury and Weston can provide that strength again.

[Devongone]

I agree it seemed that an experienced guy with Jack would be ideal, but it turned out Tommy Wright's advice was on a par with Guy Branston's. I agree recruitment is/was the key. I was amazed that we were still with the pack when the January window arrived. And yes Morsy and Ryan were just the type of players we needed and have lacked in our relegation years. A bit of size helps but it isn't a necessity - Kante doesn't win the ball by physique. In Spain's midfield even Iniesta and Silva are prepared to win the ball back if they can ...... But we lacked physique and physical presence and commitment everywhere. A big centre back going up for corners can get you 5 or 6 goals in a season himself. A robust wing back can sow confusion. A powerful guy in midfield does add presence. (Loftus-Cheek would so be in my England team!)

I notice in the last couple of days Dover have allowed a goalscoring forward to go and a strong defender who scored 5 last season and played almost every game. I wonder if that might mean someone can nab Gallifuoco or Brundle from them ...... or even the legendary Nortey Nortey?

I agree that both Caldwell and Lester seemed to neglect that important aspect of football - actually winning matches. As I've kept saying you have to have ways both to score goals and to avoid conceding them. Our last two managers seemed more concerned how we looked and how we played than whether we won. Certainly determination both gets you in on goal and defends desperate situations. You need players who want to win MORE THAN pleasing their coaches. (And doing what the coach says is unfortunately more important than winning in many of our academies and that's why youngsters struggle to break through to competitive first team football.)

I don't think we need worry about playing three at the back if Nelson is in line for a game, unless we've signed a couple of greyhounds to play with him.

Pooch, I do think you should just admit Dancing got it right and HOPE HOPE HOPE that he isn't going for three in succession this season. Failure to make the play-offs this season should be a monumental failure for us, never mind a third relegation. But this is a tough league. Boreham Wood may only have gates of 600, but their manager has a new three year contract and has already taken steps to strengthen their defence. Sutton and Maidenhead are signing players, so whilst the EFL is raiding some of non-league's brightest stars, successful teams are quickly re-shaping. To do ourselves justice we'll need MA to be on his game, stay for the season and to have recruited well. The teams who failed in the play-offs all look dangerous, at least two promoted teams could pose a threat, a couple from mid-table are definitely trying and then there's Barnet. What's that, about ten serious rivals even if we get a decent team? And if we lose our manager, or end up with a team no better than last time more Chexit or a visit to Dignitas could be on the cards.

[spireitematt]

Rumour that Ian Evatt is going to be player-manager for Barrow.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Dev, rearrange "a horse dead flogging" and it sums Blue up. I think he lives in a parallel universe, conveniently forgetting what he previously posted and making up what others said when it suits but never mind eh.

[bluepooch]

You have the best policy Dancing ,predict a manager will fail and you will invariably be right as most managers are sacked eventually ,just carry on massaging your ego and ignoring any reasonable arguments I have stated in my previous posts .
We all need to hope that this Martin Allen venture works although I am of the opinion DA would not let the club go under despite many thinking so .

[Dancingwilldoit]

Whooosh.