[Foxman_WBA]

Not sure if this is obvious or not but lets go with it!

Here is a list of our signings for the past 4 seasons, listing one of Hero, Squad or Flop depening on if the signing have been good, average or awful.

Season 14/15
Craig Gardner ------ Hero
Joleon Lescott -------Hero
Chris Baird -------Squad
Sébastien Pocognoli ------- Hero
Brown Ideye -------- Flop
Jason Davidson -----Flop
Cristian Gamboa ------Squad
Georgios Samaras ------Flop
Sebastián Blanco ------Flop

Season 13/14

Diego Lugano ------ Flop
Victor Anichbe ------- Squad
Stephane Sessegnon ----- Hero
Lee Camp ----- Flop
Nicolas Anelka ------ Flop

Season 12/13
Ben Foster ---------- Hero
Claudio Yacob --------- Hero
Markus Rosenberg --------- Flop

Season 11/12
Billy Jones ---------- Hero
Gareth McAuley-------- Hero
Zoltan Gera --------- Squad
Marton Fulop --------- Flop
Shane Long ---------- Hero
Scott Allan ------- Flop
Liam Ridgewell ------- Squad



Now to break this down further

13 - 15 Seasons
Hero - 3
Squad - 3
Flop - 7

46% Success

11 - 13 Seasons
Hero - 5
Squad - 2
Flop - 3

70% Success

And lets face it that's being quite generous in recent seasons!

So what the hell is going on with our signing system? Is Garlic that bad? Was Ashworth one of a kind? Are we just lacking stable management?

All i know is since Hodgson and Ashworth something is going amiss!

[Salopbaggie]

I think where the problem lies Fox is with the instability of the management situation when run alongside our style of player recruitment.

It takes many months of watching a player sometimes years to get a player that is the right fit. Problem I think we have is, we get a manager in, the recruitment staff go out looking for players to fit their style. Next thing you know that manager has gone and another in place with a totally different playing style who then wants a new player for a certain position immediately, so the recruitment staff say "oh we have been looking at this player" and JP or whoever signs them. Next day the new manager is saying who the **** is this, they will never fit my playing style, go find me someone else and by the time that is done the latest manager is up the road as well and the new manager etc etc.

If you look at the likes of Gamboa, Varela and Blanco they would have probably fitted Mel's style to a tee.

We will see if my logic is correct after AI goes and we get an influx of defensive holding midfielders without an attacking bone between them.

[Foxman_WBA]

Sounds like reasonable logic to me.

Although are we saying the manager has no say in the signings that are brought in? Then how can they be expected to not play a set system to which the players we have at our disposal?

In other words, shouldn’t we be looking to select a manager to suit our tactics and not the other way around, as the players won’t be changed and we only have the players for one or two systems?

It’s all just seems strange and somehow things just seems broken.

[Slick_Footwork]

From what I've seen, I'd say only Baird and Davidson are out of their depth at this
level from the summer signings.

I think it's a bit early to label Ideye, Samaras and Blanco as flops.

Varela isn't on the list, but I guess he'd be a 'flop' too, to date, hasn't started. Although,
he was good enough to score for Portugal in the world cup...

Ideye has looked poor when he's played, but you don't get over 20 caps for Nigeria,
who have plenty of attacking talent, if you're a complete mug.

I've watched plenty of Celtic in Europe over the last few years to see Samaras can
play a bit. I think he'd definitely be our top scoring midfielder if he played on the
left side. Considering he excels in operating on the counter attack, I'm surprised that
the guy hasn't started a game yet - he wasn't even deemed good enough for our
2nd string...

Blanco is a player I haven't seen in the past, but looked useful against Hull in the cup.
The guy has been capped for Argentina, so I'd say he has some potential and has to
be a better option than the likes of Dorrans.

So all in all, I don't think the evidence is there to slate our summer recruitment yet.
For me, the problem is that our recruitment team identified a bunch of attack minded
players, and a coach who plays every game with fear, setting up for a 0-0 and hoping
for a goal from a set play.

I mean, look at the Bournemouth game. We're playing against their 2nd string, and he
sets up with 3 defensive midfielders who clearly aren't allowed to cross the half way
line. Of course, the likes of Blanco and Ideye are going to look poor when there is no
support.

Incidentally, Anichebe was absolutely terrible that day too, but has been given a chance
since, which makes me think Irvine is giving preferential treatment to players he knows.

[BBB]

I remember everyone having a go at Jones, get him out some of you said - me i said he would make a right winger!

[Worldclassalbion]

How can you say they are FLOPS if they are not given a chance????? Baffling. Just look at Varela last night. Some of the best players around are in the stands or on the bench because the manager either doesn't know how to use them, doesn't like to attack because its Sooooooooo Scary or just and idiot/inept

Please step forward Mr Alan Irvine..................nuff said

[Luke_East_Baggie]

I would agree with the majority of your assessments, but probably "demote a couple" I would be tempted to move Baird From Squad to Flop (going on quality) and Billy Jones from Hero to Squad - I think he looked good because of the squad around him and our other options, and he also had some horrid times.

I find it hard to put Ridgewell down as "squad" too, when if we had Poco, or Even Davidson / Wisdom they would of been in every game over him. :/

That said (Making our recruitment percentages worse) Ashworth was a massive blow yes. I honestly don't think with JP's criteria (must cost less than a couple of million) that the current crop can find the type of players we have been missing over the last few years.

It's why we've been in for the likes of El Ghannasy (Loan), Sinclair (Loan) Vela (Loan) Anelka (Free) Samaras (Free?) and they have all to an extent been flops (with us)

In the last 4/5 years, we have probably BOUGHT 1 player, that has proven premiership quality (Ben Foster - Think he proved it with Blues) Gardner can be argued - but I think he was free. Maybe 2 including Sessegnon. The rest have been cheap, and / or a gamble. Shane wasn't that proven, and Gera was getting on and a free again.

[Foxman_WBA]

I didn't include loan signings as that would skew the figures even more into 11/13's favor.

whilst i agree that technically whist players don't play how can they be flops, but if they never play and leave how can they be anything else? You cant make a difference if you don't play, now that may not necessarily by the players fault but it doesn't make them any less of a flop.

I know my calls on players are very judgmental and so to others the figures may vary but i don't think by much.

I just think its interesting to try and put figures and ratings on what people potentially haven't thought about, obviously the whole point of this is to provoke a debate and see other peoples opinions and so i have probably been slightly harsh on the 13/15 signings.