[spireitematt]

As much as I am Eurosceptic and don't believe in the project, I have to side with Dancing.

The Leave campaign and Cameron and co never had a plan in place or to fall back on if Leave won, instead the whole thing has been made up as they go along.

It's been 17 months since the vote to leave happened and in those 17 months nothing has happened. The UK could have done there calculations and said the sum to meet our commitments we signed up to is X but we believe you are demanding Y and as there is no proof or justification for what your demanding then we suggest an agreement around Z is more fairer. Britain has to pay its obligations and what it committed to. Also we need a trade deal with the EU because WTO will be difficult. We need Europe and Europe needs us.

Blue and Dev you need to understand businesses and banks are in limbo and they can't plan 2-5 years in advance because they don't know what's going to happen. The EU citizens who work and live in Britain are in limbo, same goes for British Nationals living in Europe and people who voted Remain and Leave are none the wiser. Nobody knows anything deep down but the media and the Tories are trying to spin it as everything is hunky dory.

Blue let me tell you something you complain about immigration and believe that we should control our own borders. You do realise they are looking at getting a free trade deal with India and in return India want free movement of people and they want Doctors, engineers and technicians to be allowed to work in the UK.

We should try and get the same deal Lichtenstein have which is single market, customs union and limited immigration.

[bluepooch]

I must admit the lack of immigration control was probably the biggest factor in me voting leave .The most important thing for me when setting up these trade agreements is not to allow total free movement of labour .I am not saying ban people from coming to reside in this country from abroad but we can afford to be choosy who we take .It seems like it has snowballed out of hand in the last ten to 15 years and has led to massive social problems,London isn't recognisable from 15 years ago .I go to shopping centres and I hear people talking in a foreign language and it really bothers me to the point where I feel like saying something ,they should at least have the respect to talk English if they are choosing to live in England.I love Spain and would love to have a place there. If I did I would make damn sure I learned the language.

[Devongone]

I am beginning to panic about Brexit.

Apparently there is no one in the UK who knows how to pick a strawberry. Raspberries are even more of a mystery and the vice-chancellor of Southampton University, on his £400,000+ salary, is instituting a new department to carry out research. Gooseberries and other fruits are such a conundrum we have contacted Mr Trump for NASA's assistance.

I once had this mad idea. I saw a farmer with about a quadrazillion acres of land under plastic describing how he couldn't continue without Romanian labour .......... and you know what ....... I thought if he bought the rickety old bus in which a Romanian brought other Romanians and East Europeans from town every day he'd be able to pick up English people if the Romanians decided to go home. But you know what, despite his gazillions of acres and moleskin trousers, I don't think he could afford a rickety old bus and a rickety old driver .........

And you do realise that all our universities will have to close once all the European academics have been herded into camps and tortured? Lots of top academics say we won't be able to manage without these top European minds. But every year we admit about 500,000 qualified young people into university. And you know what the job of these top academics who are predicting doom actually is ............ it is to turn this huge pool of talent into the brightest and best in their specialist subject! So just maybe if they just did their job properly instead devoting only a sinecure-ish amount of their time to actual teaching, wouldn't we be training people in this country to be at least the equals of those we now import so that many of our academics can luxuriate behind desks and the barely-merited title of professor?

---

I must admit the lack of immigration control was probably the biggest factor in me voting leave .The most important thing for me when setting up these trade agreements is not to allow total free movement of labour .I am not saying ban people from coming to reside in this country from abroad but we can afford to be choosy who we take .It seems like it has snowballed out of hand in the last ten to 15 years and has led to massive social problems,London isn't recognisable from 15 years ago .I go to shopping centres and I hear people talking in a foreign language and it really bothers me to the point where I feel like saying something ,they should at least have the respect to talk English if they are choosing to live in England.I love Spain and would love to have a place there. If I did I would make damn sure I learned the language.

The trouble with Free Movement of Labour is that the rest of the EU understands the words. They go to other countries to work.

We largely interpret Free Movement as buying cheaper and more luxurious housing in a warmer country and taking our pension with us.

In general Europeans in Britain are good at learning the language and tend to arrive speaking some English.

We migrate to colonise coastal areas and nice bits of countryside in the countries we choose to invade. We assimilate via a phrase book in the pocket of the jacket we left back at the gite. We love the wine and the view out here. We feel as if we were on holiday.

---

Oh dear Matt -"banks need to plan 2-5 years in advance" .......... Like Northern Rock you mean? Like Nat West with whom I've banked for 45 years leaving my town and hundreds of others in May so that that they lose my account forever. Like causing the financial crash from which we haven't yet recovered thanks to Georgie Porgie and Spreadsheet Phil?

Everything you hear about uncertainty is garbage sent to scare you. Capitalism thrives on uncertainty. It is about gambling and risk. Those things don't exist in a world of certainty. If you gave the stock market certainty it would stagnate and traders would have to develop an algorithm to create it. Well that's my view from Marxist perspective .......... but I don't expect anyone to agree any more than I think they should tell me what I MUST understand. I do understand and I do reject that interpretation ...... in the nicest possible way of course.

I'm not really into erecting scaffolding around the excrescences of monopoly capitalism that's all. I've remained true to the views Mr McDonnell, who I like a lot, and Mr Corbyn say they have deserted.

[spireitematt]

I am beginning to panic about Brexit.

Apparently there is no one in the UK who knows how to pick a strawberry. Raspberries are even more of a mystery and the vice-chancellor of Southampton University, on his £400,000+ salary, is instituting a new department to carry out research. Gooseberries and other fruits are such a conundrum we have contacted Mr Trump for NASA's assistance.

I once had this mad idea. I saw a farmer with about a quadrazillion acres of land under plastic describing how he couldn't continue without Romanian labour .......... and you know what ....... I thought if he bought the rickety old bus in which a Romanian brought other Romanians and East Europeans from town every day he'd be able to pick up English people if the Romanians decided to go home. But you know what, despite his gazillions of acres and moleskin trousers, I don't think he could afford a rickety old bus and a rickety old driver .........

And you do realise that all our universities will have to close once all the European academics have been herded into camps and tortured? Lots of top academics say we won't be able to manage without these top European minds. But every year we admit about 500,000 qualified young people into university. And you know what the job of these top academics who are predicting doom actually is ............ it is to turn this huge pool of talent into the brightest and best in their specialist subject! So just maybe if they just did their job properly instead devoting only a sinecure-ish amount of their time to actual teaching, wouldn't we be training people in this country to be at least the equals of those we now import so that many of our academics can luxuriate behind desks and the barely-merited title of professor?

---

I must admit the lack of immigration control was probably the biggest factor in me voting leave .The most important thing for me when setting up these trade agreements is not to allow total free movement of labour .I am not saying ban people from coming to reside in this country from abroad but we can afford to be choosy who we take .It seems like it has snowballed out of hand in the last ten to 15 years and has led to massive social problems,London isn't recognisable from 15 years ago .I go to shopping centres and I hear people talking in a foreign language and it really bothers me to the point where I feel like saying something ,they should at least have the respect to talk English if they are choosing to live in England.I love Spain and would love to have a place there. If I did I would make damn sure I learned the language.

The trouble with Free Movement of Labour is that the rest of the EU understands the words. They go to other countries to work.

We largely interpret Free Movement as buying cheaper and more luxurious housing in a warmer country and taking our pension with us.

In general Europeans in Britain are good at learning the language and tend to arrive speaking some English.

We migrate to colonise coastal areas and nice bits of countryside in the countries we choose to invade. We assimilate via a phrase book in the pocket of the jacket we left back at the gite. We love the wine and the view out here. We feel as if we were on holiday.

---

Oh dear Matt -"banks need to plan 2-5 years in advance" .......... Like Northern Rock you mean? Like Nat West with whom I've banked for 45 years leaving my town and hundreds of others in May so that that they lose my account forever. Like causing the financial crash from which we haven't yet recovered thanks to Georgie Porgie and Spreadsheet Phil?

Everything you hear about uncertainty is garbage sent to scare you. Capitalism thrives on uncertainty. It is about gambling and risk. Those things don't exist in a world of certainty. If you gave the stock market certainty it would stagnate and traders would have to develop an algorithm to create it. Well that's my view from Marxist perspective .......... but I don't expect anyone to agree any more than I think they should tell me what I MUST understand. I do understand and I do reject that interpretation ...... in the nicest possible way of course.

I'm not really into erecting scaffolding around the excrescences of monopoly capitalism that's all. I've remained true to the views Mr McDonnell, who I like a lot, and Mr Corbyn say they have deserted.

First and foremost Dev and Blue I would like to apologise if I have offended you by what I said its just that Brexit is a subject which is very divisive and one that is worrying because if the Tories get it wrong then the whole country and everyone is going to feel the aftermath.

After what I've read today and talk of United States of Europe by 2025 I'm sort of glad we are leaving but I'm also worried about the financial implications the whole country might feel especially if we don't get a trade deal because the talks have all been a cock up.

I've been unemployed on and off and I applied for a job a few years ago via a recruitment agency but the recruiter who was Eastern European dissuaded me from the job as they wanted someone who could speak Polish.

[bluepooch]

Dancing .Do you really believe that all these companies you mention will really just pull the plug when Brexit actually happens ?.They have a lot to lose by doing this dont they ? .Surely youre living in a dark and fantastical world .Its really worrying how all the remainers are predicting this apocalyptic scenario which incidentally they have been predicting for 18 months with no obvious results as yet.

[Dancingwilldoit]

Like I said before Blue we haven't left yet so why would there be any changes?
From what is being said today it looks like we may have a deal but theres still a long way to go. Yes I do believe if there was no deal we would up shit creek without a paddle. Its ok you and and Dev preaching short term pain for long term gain but feel free if you want to come and explain to friends who have worked for me for years why I have to make them redundant. I believe Dev is retired so its ok for him to be very opinionated, he will still get his pension no matter what, and I would put money on you being in a relatively safe job - Public Services or the Service Sector or something similar.
Industry is very fickle, if it cant see a future then theres no investment - simple as. No investment = job losses. So you tell me if I live in a dark fantastical world, I promise I live in the real world and am very pleased that at last negociations seem to be going somewhere.

[Devongone]

I'm not offended by anything any of my friends on here say. I'm just not happy for it to be assumed I haven't thought about these things a great deal, or that I'm any happier to be on the same side as Nigel Farage than Tony Benn liked lining up with Enoch Powell.

I'm not sure Brexit is in my interests at all. The reason I voted to leave was ENTIRELY for the future. A future I won't live to see. I'm not even a believer in representative democracy, but the EU is an oligarchy of the rich in which the electorate's sway over the decisions taken would need be measured by micrometer. The impact of the people of Europe on the EU is virtually NIL. Coming out won't create me the Britain I want, but it will at least make that vaguely possible some time in the distant future. A vote in the European Parliament isn't even a piss in the wind, it's a catheter and they run your output back through your nose and charge you for it.

IMO that the EU is a doomed project. Its aim appears to be a superstate, but national identities and xenophobia will crash that one. Mr Juncker proposes a European armed force .......... but most of the states to which he is pitching the idea are members of NATO who already flout the requirement to devote 2% of spending to defence - so that's doomed too. The Euro struggles and is only willingly adopted by desperate states. When member states are in trouble the EU does not so much offer assistance as hold their heads underwater and comment on how bad they are at swimming ......

I've commented on here and other forums loads of times that we never heard any reference during the referendum to positive aspects of EU for the future. All we got was a picture of made-up disasters if we left. No-one has ever come back and told me about how the EU would in future improve Britain and Europe.

I'm against the EU for Britain and for all our friends and neighbours too. I'm for self-determination and co-operation. I want a world in which someone with Matt's obvious potential and intelligence is valued and in which he can be part of forums whose opinions matter and reach the final decision-making process and are NOT haphazardly discarded along the way.

The EU was founded on high ideals, but so were the Olympic Committee and FIFA.

And I don't see why I can't be Dancing's crazed marxist friend even though I'll engage in him friendly argument at every turn ........ just as I will with Blue if he says "in Jack we trust" if Ricky German's next loan turns out to be to the Norwegian third division - though it is summer football and would stop Ricky putting on any weight .........

And Matt, I've told you how highly I rate you. If I win Euromillions tonight you will get your chance to show your potential in a top job at the Proact at a club which will be the envy of the fans of every other club in the country. And by the way, don't apologise, or I'll have to apologise to you for all the unwise things I've said!

[bluepooch]

Could there be a Dev and Matt love-in here ?

[Devongone]

Matt's younger than US and still has potential actually to be something if he got the chance.

I didn't win Euromillions so I won't be contacting AC as buyer, Matt'll have to make his own way and I can't chuck a million or so into Dancing's firm so he can diversify in any way he feels necessary to get over Mrs May's Dulcolax Brexit.

I'm all for looking to the future so young people can make more of their potential than I ever have. And I'm all for leaving them a country over which they can exercise control rather than bequeathing them a walk-on part in some third-rate production directed at long-range by an identity-and-personality-free Eurocracy.

[spireitematt]

Matt's younger than US and still has potential actually to be something if he got the chance.

I didn't win Euromillions so I won't be contacting AC as  buyer, Matt'll have to make his own way and I can't chuck a million or so into Dancing's firm so he can diversify in any way he feels necessary to get over Mrs May's Dulcolax Brexit.

I'm all for looking to the future so young people can make more of their potential than I ever have. And I'm all for leaving them a country over which they can exercise control rather than bequeathing them a walk-on part in some third-rate production directed at long-range by an identity-and-personality-free Eurocracy.

Thanks Dev for believing in me.