[drewks]

St Charles it's great to hear from a Neutral point of view,
And I agree with 99% of what you say,
In fact after WBA beat Wolves 5-1 RH said BEFORE Mick McCarthy was sacked be careful what you wish for.
He was sacked the day after and Wolves went into freefall straight into Division 2,
Everything you say makes sense,
But I can only get to 4 or 5 games a season and it's not cheap but i only saw one decent half of football last season
the second half v Swansea, what happened to the other 9  
Like worldclass said he has three season tickets to pay for and somewhere this has to stop,
Like you say it could go tits up and years ago it would have done,
But as i have been sticking up for TP for the last two years he has now better players who are being strangulated,
The only reason I would go for change now is that we have a little more investment and better players to survive,
I don't think our League position would change a lot but I think with a good manager we would have more fun along the way and stay up,
The big question of course when the time comes to giving the TP the boot could we then trust the board to choose the right successor ?
That is my MAJOR concern  

That bit (above) to me, sums it all up.
I, for one, am not after chasing a top 4/5/6 or even 9th place - staying up BUT DOING IT WITH A BIT OF STYLE would do me fine!

[Sir Megson]

When he was appointed, I wanted him. Reason being, under Irvine we had a really poor, aging squad and IMO we looked nailed on for relegation. We'd been flirting with it under Mel and Clarke in the previous 2 years and we needed someone who was good at getting the best out of a mediocre set of players. Pulis has done that time again time again.

And to be fair, I think since his appointment he's done a really good job.

You have to look at where we came to where we are. He took a squad which looked nailed on for relegation and in one transfer window turned us into a mid table side. Most of the rubbish players he inherited have been ousted to lower league or abroad and for best part, his transfers have been very decent.

However, now it's a different challenge...

It's no longer a case of just keeping us up. It's a case of pushing us on or if we're remaining mid table, at least improving our style of play. And this is where the problem arises, like we saw with Pulis at Stoke after they had become established - when he spends money on better players, his mindset remains the same as when he has mediocre players.

And that is why I'm starting to become frustrated.

We have a good squad and credit to TP for building that, I think he's recruited some very good players. BUT with this squad there's absolutely no reason why we're playing sides in the lower reaches, promoted sides, sides who barely survived last season and giving them so much respect. It's not good enough with this set of players.

I don't want him to be sacked as I think he deserves time with this squad to see what he can get out of them. Since Krychowiak arrived, Chaldi and Burke haven't been fit. Who knows, maybe TP will reintroduce Chadli with more legs to cover and we'll then start playing a bit more football...

Wouldn't hold my breath, but we'll see...

Plus we would get absolutely hammered in the media for sacking him after the job he's done for us.

So let's re-evaluate at the end of the season. At the moment I'm frustrated with the rubbish football and believe we could do more with this squad. But we have to be realistic and see that we've had 4 league games since signing Krychowiak, Gibbs and Burke and that really isn't enough time to see what TP can do with this squad. Had we not been robbed against Arsenal, things could be looking a lot more rosey than they are.

Should stay, to evaluate at the end of the season - unless we look like we're going to get relegated of course.

The post with the most sense spoken on here in the aftermath of the Watford game. St Charles Owl also very much spot on with what he has said. 

Have voted no simply because it's far too early in the season to be swapping managers and I don't rate many of the currently available, out of work ones. 

Personally out of all the managers currently I'd be tempted to bring in McInnes from Aberdeen. Had a rough time a Bristol City but I think he could make the step up now he's had more experience under his belt. Would be a decent successor to Pulis and to be honest, I could see Bournemouth, Swansea or another struggling club making an approach to Pulis in a bid to keep them up this season. 

Had a good laugh yesterday though at one of our fans saying we should be in for Ancelotti on a football phone in. Absolutely deluded!

[Worldclassalbion]

Worldclass, I love your honesty and your sentiment, but unfortunately the obscene money and stuffed shirts of the FA are the cause of TP and most of the prem. Their bias towards their elite and the can't lose out on the honey pot breeds a don't lose at any cost mentality ...... TP is defensive but which came first ..... his attitude or don't lose at any cost chairmen intent on staying in the greed league ......

TP could be more expansive but would it cost him his job ...... fans bring in so little revenue their becoming expendable ... until the power of the top six is curbed things will continue to get worse.

Pulis' attitude has always been defend mate. Peter Coates is the chairman of Stoke. He along with the fans had had enough of the type of hoofball we are having to endure now hence they let him go and didn't renew his contract. Sparky Hughes love him or hate him has got Sjoke playing some good stuff. It's us who are now known as a Typical Pulis side by everyone else and I hate that fact.

One day his 'never been relegated' tag will expire. I honestly don't know why he buys attackers because he certainly doesn't know how to utilise them. This isn't football, it's defend defend defend and even that's not working now. Woeful soul destroying stuff.

[Zinman]

I've seen (on other sites of course!) those of us criticise Pulis being accused of wanting to play like Barcelona. Personally, though I'd love to see that, what I actually want is us to play a bit like Watford did yesterday - not too unreasonable is it.

We now have players that are capable of:
Passing the ball to each other
Keeping possession
Controlling a ball when it's passed to them
Attacking the opposition
Creating chances from open play

We have the players but i don't believe we have a manager interested in any of the above. His default is to defend with as many men as possible behind the ball. The only time he's interested in attacking is if we're behind...and even then he waits until as late as possible. I see a squad that is capable of exciting football but can anyone ever see a time when Pulis would start with, for example, Burke, Chadli and Phillips (or Leko next year) plus a centre forward in the same team?

[Slick_Footwork]

The other thing people have to remember is that a change of manager doesn't guarantee a better style.

Everyone talks like the football was great before Pulis, but it was absolutely dross under Irvine. At least under Pulis we are competitive at home, under Irvine we were dross to watch and weak.

There has been a lot of teams playing terrible, defensive football in the Premier League for the last 2 or 3 years and good football from anyone outside of the top 6 is the exception to the norm. I guess it's a coincidental time because we've just played Watford, but Marco Silva is the only new manager in the last 2 years I can remember coming in and playing football with a 'lesser' side.

I mean people give Bournemouth a lot of credit for good football, but when I watch them, I don't see it. Yes, they have a fair share of the ball, but they don't have players that excite you, beat a man, thread balls through. When we played them at home on the opening day they huffed and puffed but didn't create anything.

Swansea brought in Clement, who had been at all the big clubs and they are terrible to watch now. Southampton have had 2 foreign managers at in last 2 years, both successful abroad, but barely look like scoring. Boro were absolute dross last year with Karanka in charge, once a cracking player at Real Madrid. West Ham are just as boring as us under Bilic, who has spent a lot more money. Even Everton, having spent probably 4x the money that we have in the summer play with multiple defensive midfielders, no width, no pace and are absolutely shocking to watch.

Palace brought in De Boer, who was apparently a footballing coach and didn't score a goal in 5 games... Then they brought in another 'dinosaur' in Hodgson to try and save the day.

We need to be careful what we wish for. The grass isn't always greener.

The fact is, this is Premier League. It's a league where teams at the bottom defend for their lives, foreign manager or not. It's all about money, clubs couldn't care less about entertaining.

[4evaabaggie]

St Charles, I very good post, very well written, very well phrased and very accurate, there are 72 clubs who would swap places in a heartbeat, the chance of another Leicester is slim, our only hope of Europe is finishing sixth or winning a cup, so staying upper mid table is the best most teams can hope for, we are close to achieving that status but most fans would sacrifice that for staying up with a little style along the way ..... the thrill of a successful relegation fight again is probably the biggest thrill most top flight fans will get ...... it is more a case of the fans expectations "where you expect to be or what / how you achieve it".that people are upset about.

[BaggieSteve]

I'll give you my take if I may?  I will spare you the "Don't forget how lucky you are , we would love a chance at a relegation scrap in the Prem after being out of it for nearly 17 years!!" - actually no I won't spare you from that, I won't chastise you like I would Arsenal fans for complaining but you might want to be careful what you wish for!!  

I see West Brom as an established PL team in a league where any of the bottom 13 teams could go down in any given season!!  Its a league of "pass the baton, its now your turn to go down" but even with the stupid relegation reward money that teams are given there is no divine right for established prem teams to come straight back up.  Pulis is about as solid as it gets in terms of you keeping your PL status, remove him and you may just remove that status for a long time!!

On the other hand, you are an established PL team and while I doubt any of you are expecting to challenge the top 6, I can understand the desire to see the team move forward in terms of attacking play and good performances.  I expect most of the teams like yours shutting up shop when playing the top 6 and almost trying to keep the score respectable, but when you play the rest a bit of ambition and attacking flair is needed while keeping the Pulis defense intact.  So while the performances are dire with little really attacking endeavor and closed shop defending when you do go ahead I can understand that it simply becomes boring to watch, hence the fall in attendances and mood of the fans, particualrly at home!!

So maybe it comes down to your aspirations for WBA, do you treasure that PL place enough to not risk it but have to watch defensive, tight and often boring football or can you accept that once in a while you will either be in the thick of a relegation scrap and even go down, with no guarantee of a quick return and the financial dangers that brings with it???  Cuddly Uncle Tony will keep you up, are you prepared to suffer the consequences of the next man does not??  Of course an inspired new manager choice could send you the other way, but its probably a dead cert that this won't last and eventually you will go down playing cavalier football and searching again for a manager to get you out of the Championship instead.

St Charles, thanks for your post, it was really good. I appreciate you sparing us the "you don't know how lucky you are" guff that is the usual reply of the MOTD and Sky pundits. These are guys for whom nothing exists outside the PL so they cannot contemplate why any football fan would consider a change of manager that might imperil this status. "Just put up with the crap you're being subjected to and be grateful". Neither do I buy the "TP is guaranteed to keep you in the PL" mantra; whilst it's a fact he's never been relegated, this has not become an empirical theory. At some point it will probably happen, possibly with us. If/when it does, can we demand our money back for the dire football we had to watch to prove this theory was b*ll*cks.

I also think your last comment about needing to decide what sort of Albion we want is spot on. For me, it is not PL status at any cost, I believe that is unsustainable. The trouble is that, if you say that, you normally get hit with a list of clubs who have been relegated and who have yet to regain their PL status as if this was a self fulfilling prophecy. If Pulis was to go, I do not accept relegation is a certainty but there are Baggies fans who would have you believe this was inevitable. What sort of Albion do I want? A team that goes out to win, not one that goes out to avoid defeat; one that believes if you have the ball, it's infinitely more enjoyable for your fans than watching the opposition have it for two thirds of the game; one that values creativity and not aaard work; finally one that believes if you've scored one goal or two goals, there is no reason not to try to score more because, by doing so, you'll put more pressure on the opposition and, god forbid, the fans will probably enjoy it.

It's great that, as a Wednesday fan, you comment on the Albion, your contributions are always very welcome

[4evaabaggie]

Worldclass, I love your honesty and your sentiment, but unfortunately the obscene money and stuffed shirts of the FA are the cause of TP and most of the prem. Their bias towards their elite and the can't lose out on the honey pot breeds a don't lose at any cost mentality ...... TP is defensive but which came first ..... his attitude or don't lose at any cost chairmen intent on staying in the greed league ......

TP could be more expansive but would it cost him his job ...... fans bring in so little revenue their becoming expendable ... until the power of the top six is curbed things will continue to get worse.

Pulis' attitude has always been defend mate. Peter Coates is the chairman of Stoke. He along with the fans had had enough of the type of hoofball we are having to endure now hence they let him go and didn't renew his contract. Sparky Hughes love him or hate him has got Sjoke playing some good stuff. It's us who are now known as a Typical Pulis side by everyone else and I hate that fact.

One day his 'never been relegated' tag will expire. I honestly don't know why he buys attackers because he certainly doesn't know how to utilise them. This isn't football, it's defend defend defend and even that's not working now. Woeful soul destroying stuff.

I'm with you mate ...... as an Albion exile I only have to suffer commentary and phone app reporting ....
I hate our current reputation, we used to be most fans second club, why would you now.

[Sir Megson]

The other thing people have to remember is that a change of manager doesn't guarantee a better style.

Everyone talks like the football was great before Pulis, but it was absolutely dross under Irvine. At least under Pulis we are competitive at home, under Irvine we were dross to watch and weak.

There has been a lot of teams playing terrible, defensive football in the Premier League for the last 2 or 3 years and good football from anyone outside of the top 6 is the exception to the norm. I guess it's a coincidental time because we've just played Watford, but Marco Silva is the only new manager in the last 2 years I can remember coming in and playing football with a 'lesser' side.

I mean people give Bournemouth a lot of credit for good football, but when I watch them, I don't see it. Yes, they have a fair share of the ball, but they don't have players that excite you, beat a man, thread balls through. When we played them at home on the opening day they huffed and puffed but didn't create anything.

Swansea brought in Clement, who had been at all the big clubs and they are terrible to watch now. Southampton have had 2 foreign managers at in last 2 years, both successful abroad, but barely look like scoring. Boro were absolute dross last year with Karanka in charge, once a cracking player at Real Madrid. West Ham are just as boring as us under Bilic, who has spent a lot more money. Even Everton, having spent probably 4x the money that we have in the summer play with multiple defensive midfielders, no width, no pace and are absolutely shocking to watch.

Palace brought in De Boer, who was apparently a footballing coach and didn't score a goal in 5 games... Then they brought in another 'dinosaur' in Hodgson to try and save the day.

We need to be careful what we wish for. The grass isn't always greener.

The fact is, this is Premier League. It's a league where teams at the bottom defend for their lives, foreign manager or not. It's all about money, clubs couldn't care less about entertaining.

Another accurate description of the current state of the Premier League, especially your comments about Bournemouth. They were a fantastic side to watch in their promotion season but since their days in the PL they have become one of my least liked teams. Diving/Play acting to waste time and not the most entertaining football to watch either.

This poll and the reaction in general since the Watford game is a hideous overreaction. 

Conceding a last minute goal to scupper what would have been a good result is definitely annoying, however I don't recall calls for Pepe Mel's head after the 3-3 at home to Cardiff. His football was also shite to watch.

[Zinman]

The other thing people have to remember is that a change of manager doesn't guarantee a better style.

Everyone talks like the football was great before Pulis, but it was absolutely dross under Irvine. At least under Pulis we are competitive at home, under Irvine we were dross to watch and weak.

There has been a lot of teams playing terrible, defensive football in the Premier League for the last 2 or 3 years and good football from anyone outside of the top 6 is the exception to the norm. I guess it's a coincidental time because we've just played Watford, but Marco Silva is the only new manager in the last 2 years I can remember coming in and playing football with a 'lesser' side.

I mean people give Bournemouth a lot of credit for good football, but when I watch them, I don't see it. Yes, they have a fair share of the ball, but they don't have players that excite you, beat a man, thread balls through. When we played them at home on the opening day they huffed and puffed but didn't create anything.

Swansea brought in Clement, who had been at all the big clubs and they are terrible to watch now. Southampton have had 2 foreign managers at in last 2 years, both successful abroad, but barely look like scoring. Boro were absolute dross last year with Karanka in charge, once a cracking player at Real Madrid. West Ham are just as boring as us under Bilic, who has spent a lot more money. Even Everton, having spent probably 4x the money that we have in the summer play with multiple defensive midfielders, no width, no pace and are absolutely shocking to watch.

Palace brought in De Boer, who was apparently a footballing coach and didn't score a goal in 5 games... Then they brought in another 'dinosaur' in Hodgson to try and save the day.

We need to be careful what we wish for. The grass isn't always greener.

The fact is, this is Premier League. It's a league where teams at the bottom defend for their lives, foreign manager or not. It's all about money, clubs couldn't care less about entertaining.

Another accurate description of the current state of the Premier League, especially your comments about Bournemouth. They were a fantastic side to watch in their promotion season but since their days in the PL they have become one of my least liked teams. Diving/Play acting to waste time and not the most entertaining football to watch either.

This poll and the reaction in general since the Watford game is a hideous overreaction. 

Conceding a last minute goal to scupper what would have been a good result is definitely annoying, however I don't recall calls for Pepe Mel's head after the 3-3 at home to Cardiff. His football was also shite to watch.

The comments in this thread are not a reaction to the Watford game, they're a reaction to 3 years of mind-numbing boredom of watching Albion under Pulis. I also don't agree with your comment re Pepe Mel - the results may well have been shite but most games I saw (and those were my pre-Pulis season ticket times) had at least some entertainment, even if some of it was of the comical variety. We scored goals and we conceded goals and, guess what, we stayed up.