[Northwalesbaggie]

While I have sympathy for all Bury supporters, this was a club that was so badly run for the past 5 years plus.  Steve Dale bought the club for a pound and passed the fit and proper test, but that test is so flawed its pointless.  It is really only a check on criminal convictions and connections to football and almost everyone would pass it!!  That needs to be fixed by the EFL but legally they are on dodgy ground denying someone who has the money to buy a club.  Had they not approved Dale buying them, then they would have folded in December by all accounts.  As Themaclad said, the loans the previous owners made to the club were set up on ridiculous terms that could not be sustained by a club of Bury’s size, could the EFL had done anything about that, I don’t think they could.  Bury won promotion last season, their fans were ecstatic about that but they bought their promotion by paying crazy wages while having little revenue to cover the costs, it was a house of cards that was bound to crash at some point!!

Also at what point do the fans need to take some of the blame for this sort of situation?  I have no idea what the fans of Bury had as regards expectations but we see plenty of posts on here where fans plead with their clubs to spend more money on players to try to win promotion, its on the SWFC board on here often enough but everyone one of our teams have fans that want the owners to spend more.  Jeremey Peace ran WBA on a strict budget from what you guys have said, ultimately that possibly led to your relegation but it didn’t lead to your demise after relegation.  You came down as a solid club in a good financial position (in comparison to quite a few others) and are still challenging to regain your PL spot.  Newcastle fans slam Ashley for not spending more money, he refuses to do so and they are a profitable club but we see them as a basket case??  I think Ashley is protecting his investment by spending what he thinks he needs to to keep them in the PL and keep them in the money, accepting that occasionally he might get it wrong and spend a season in the Championship, but unless he goes bust they will financially be sound.  The problem is the fans want more, they want to spend money to challenge the top 6 as they think they are a big enough club to do so, which would see them go into debt if they truly spent that sort of money!!  Even then if they got it wrong, they could still go down but then the finances could see them do a Portsmouth or Sunderland.

The EFL have put in rules with regard to the finances of club to try to keep them in a solvent position, those rules need to be updated and constantly improved but I am not sure they can stop a club getting investment from wherever they want and that when we see loans like the Bury one at 138% interest!!  Clubs, owners and fans need to move towards a sustainable model with regards to finances or else it only takes one bad owner to see a club disappear!!  One suggestion on here would be for the top 6 in the PL leave and go to a European Super League, this would kill the silly money the PL has and would see an English league with far more competitiveness and probably a better league, but how many of the remaining PL clubs would potentially go bust once the money dries up and how many of the Championship clubs would see owners lose interest once the pot of gold is removed??  Moving clubs to the German model might be a better solution but while ever the PL has all the money then clubs will stretch themselves financially to try to get there, and some will fall away and maybe even disappear as a consequence.

I’ll put my tin hat on now!!!!

St Charles Owl... A well thought out post. You can take your tin hat off. I'm sure that most of us would agree with your views. I for one do. Is the a link to the German Model of ownership that i can have a look at?. BTW many years ago i went to Hillsborough with then a friend of mine ( an Owls supporter) & saw Brunty playing for the Owls. I sais to my then friend ( we are now broken friends) that Brunty would be signed by the Baggies.. and he was . My last visit to Hillsborough saw Super Kevin Phillips come off the bench to score the only Goal to win the Game for the Baggies. It was an awful mid-week game but i had a smile on the long journey back to North Wales. Good Luck to SWFC.. but not against the Baggies

[WBA-Josh]

Here are some links to ze Germans 50+1 rule.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bunde...466583.jsp

https://www.dw.com/en/demise-of-english-...a-50193364

https://m.dw.com/en/opinion-501-is-the-r...a-42472062

[Northwalesbaggie]

Here are some links to ze Germans 50+1 rule.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bunde...466583.jsp

https://www.dw.com/en/demise-of-english-...a-50193364

https://m.dw.com/en/opinion-501-is-the-r...a-42472062

Thanks Josh

[WBA-Josh]

No problem.

The 50+1 rule isn’t perfect and Leipzig and Hoffenheim have shown ways to get around it (I don’t put Wolfsburg or Bayer Leverkusen in the same pile) but the general rules means that the fans and members of the club have an actual say in what happens. Too many times we see English fans moaning that their club is doing something that they don’t like such as raising ticket prices etc but in Germany, the people who pay their hard earned money into the club are able to create change if required.

[Northwalesbaggie]

No problem.

The 50+1 rule isn’t perfect and Leipzig and Hoffenheim have shown ways to get around it (I don’t put Wolfsburg or Bayer Leverkusen in the same pile) but the general rules means that the fans and members of the club have an actual say in what happens. Too many times we see English fans moaning that their club is doing something that they don’t like such as raising ticket prices etc but in Germany, the people who pay their hard earned money into the club are able to create change if required.

As you say, by no means perfect BUT a lot better than the Rubbish EFL clubs ( & supporters ) have to put up with. Very interesting articles on how it works.

[Ska'dForLife-WBA]

I do wonder to an extent whether the 50+1 model is also aided by Germany's general culture of civic duty and participation in all aspects of society (strong trade union movement, worker representation on company boards, etc). All too often in this country we tend to expect other people to get things done on our behalf, and on those occasions when there is call for public involvement in a project, it always ends up being fanatical diehards of one stripe or another who start trying to call the shots for their own advantage. I've heard enough second-hand horror stories of supporter's trusts descending into chaos to be wary of the approach, unless it's got some serious checks and balances.