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A constant theme in so many of our match reports that I read is the issue of a shaky defence. Yet this seems by no means to be merely confined to HTFC. In the Premiership it would seem that only Chelsea have what is considered a 'sound' defence. Has the game altered radically? Is general play/passing faster? Are players themselves faster and fitter? Has the age of dedicated defenders who could read the game passed us by? I personally think that three rule changes in relatively recent football history have given attackers the advantage:
1. Goal keepers can no longer pick up back passes
2. The offside rule - if you're level you're 'on.'
3. Penalising tackles from behind.
These were all moves to promote 'positive' play but have they encouraged teams to 'park the bus?' Now I see we don't seem able to do that too well but I'd welcome comments as to why 'shaky defending' seems to be such a general issue. Who are the stand out defenders for Town in your memory? How might they cope with the modern game?
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I don't think defenders are any better or worse than before. In my opinion it's over analysed and sometimes they confuse bad defending with good attacking play. If a clever player outfoxes his opposition, it's not bound to be bad defending.
As for great Town defenders, what about Ken Monkou? He was classy, but sadly his time with us was short lived.
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(29-11-2014, 00:59)Lord Snooty Wrote: I don't think defenders are any better or worse than before. In my opinion it's over analysed and sometimes they confuse bad defending with good attacking play. If a clever player outfoxes his opposition, it's not bound to be bad defending.
As for great Town defenders, what about Ken Monkou? He was classy, but sadly his time with us was short lived.
I agree 100% about over analysis Lord Snooty. Certain MOTD pundits [good as they were] who are/were often very critical of defenders would have been hard pressed themselves if they had had to play out it of defence instead of being able to pass it back to Grobelaar!
Monkou was indeed very classy and going back a bit further we had a great tradition for producing full backs. Obviously Ray Wilson - but his partner Denis Atkins was a class act. Not long after we had Denis Parkin and Chris Cattlin and Bob MacNab who had an illustrious career with Arsenal. I just wonder if more is required from defenders nowadays, especially what were called full backs now wing backs, who are expected to get forward all the time -and are often left in the lurch by forwards who won't track back when things break down.
Please don't think I'm trying to start some rationalisation of the modern game. I'm just interested in opinions as to why defensive problems are always being highlighted and, more particularly, who they have rated as Town defenders in their experience on the terraces. I'm with you all the way re: outfoxing defenders. There are some very talented players about in all squads.
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29-11-2014, 01:35
(This post was last modified: 29-11-2014, 01:39 by EastLondonTerrier.)
Great town defenders in my albeit still young town career were (on his day) efe sodje, although prone to stupidity now and then, he was an athlete and an animal for us when we got promotion. Anyone who watched the play-off final when he made an unreal interception against junio r mendes will testify. Kevin Gray was also a rock but probably would get mullered by modern day standards now. We haven't had a genuinely good fullback at all in my town lifetime although my old man always regales me of allegories about how we used to produce top class fullbacks at the drop of a hat. Tom Cowan being the standout.
and in answer to the original post, Jamie Carragher and Gary Nevilled pointed out a very good point when analysing premier league defending this season. There just isn't enough time dedictated to defending from coaches now anymore where before the majority of training sessions would be on defending and small portions to attacking whereas now it is the opposite. Defensive solidity is sacrificed for attacking flair where now there is a paucity of top-level centre backs now. Apart from Kompany, Chiellini, vintage John Terry and a couple others, how many could you name in an elite bracket?
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(29-11-2014, 01:35)EastLondonTerrier Wrote: Great town defenders in my albeit still young town career were (on his day) efe sodje, although prone to stupidity now and then, he was an athlete and an animal for us when we got promotion. Anyone who watched the play-off final when he made an unreal interception against junio r mendes will testify. Kevin Gray was also a rock but probably would get mullered by modern day standards now. We haven't had a genuinely good fullback at all in my town lifetime although my old man always regales me of allegories about how we used to produce top class fullbacks at the drop of a hat. Tom Cowan being the standout.
and in answer to the original post, Jamie Carragher and Gary Nevilled pointed out a very good point when analysing premier league defending this season. There just isn't enough time dedictated to defending from coaches now anymore where before the majority of training sessions would be on defending and small portions to attacking whereas now it is the opposite. Defensive solidity is sacrificed for attacking flair where now there is a paucity of top-level centre backs now. Apart from Kompany, Chiellini, vintage John Terry and a couple others, how many could you name in an elite bracket?
That's a great point ELT. I think it was yesterday I heard Mark Lawrenson talking about Man U and L'pool trying to build teams from the front whereas, traditionally, you always started at the back. Tom Cowan, by the way, was a great player to have in your side - even played in goal at QPR! Another great full back of the Eighties was Malcolm Brown. Your point about a lack of quality centre backs and comments re: Premiership teams is what made me pose the question, perhaps rather clumsily,"Is defence a problem for EVERYONE?"
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I think not only are we beginning to find a paucity of technically gifted centre backs but also leaders as well. There are less and less centre backs who are captains now, and I think it'll take another 4-5 years for a new crop of world-class defenders to emerge. You could even translate this point to fullbacks where now the emphasis is much more on bombing forward and supporting the midfield as opposed to what a traditional full-backs natural job was to do which was to defend and cover the CBs. Just look at teams like everton and southampton whose entire playing structure can sometimes depend on coleman and baines and now clyne and bertrand to a point where if one or both are injured in either team, performances drop off massively. The demise of the out and out winger could happen as a result of this in 10-15 years.
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Slightly off the subject but some of my all time best Town players have been full backs.
Tom Cowan the best Town player of all time in my eyes.
Malcolm Brown, Simon Trevitt, Simon Charlton and that Jamie Vincent lad......all fantastic players.
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I personally just think the game is quicker these days, I was only saying to my long suffering Town mate on Saturday that the difference between this level of football now and the last time we were in this division is massive. It's like it's a second Premiership these days with the amount of money being thrown at clubs and spent on wages.
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(03-12-2014, 14:39)WakeyTerrier Wrote: I personally just think the game is quicker these days, I was only saying to my long suffering Town mate on Saturday that the difference between this level of football now and the last time we were in this division is massive. It's like it's a second Premiership these days with the amount of money being thrown at clubs and spent on wages.
Totally agree, Wakey.
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the rules have changed to make attacking a priority the make the game look better to fans, and it has affected how a team has to defend
long gone are the bruisers of yesteryear ( Andy Morrison being a favorite) defenders in general now have to be smarter rather than stronger, tackling is now about anticipating where the ball is going to be rather than just clattering the attacking player.
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