[Slick_Footwork]

It’s interesting how we view a game differently  

I have no issue with the effort from the players but that’s about the sum total of that performance. I honestly think that was the worst home performance under Allardyce and, yes, I haven’t forgotten Villa, Leeds and Arsenal. Those were teams that had attacking players with attacking intent and who were vastly superior to our eleven. Today, Newcastle were missing their 3 most influential out players (it would have been a different game had they been playing I reckon), so they came not to lose and, if possible, catch us on the break. Despite that, and the expected amount of possession we had, we created bugger all, just a couple of half chances - chances that a team with some semblance of attacking ability might have converted but we don’t have that. All the effort and possession in the world is only useful if you do something with it and we didn’t. This had 0-0 written over it after about 10 minutes. Allardyce has undoubtedly improved the defence and Yokuslu is the defensive midfielder we have needed all season but he has done nothing to improve us as an attacking threat.  
We have all been critical of Grant - and justifiably- but if Diagne is the answer then what’s the question? Let’s be honest , for all his physical presence, he’s in the team to score goals. He’s managed 1, been offside countless times and missed a good few sitters. I can’t help thinking that we have acquired the Senegalese Joelinton - on today’s showing, I’d take the latter.
If others can take positives from today, then great. For me, it was a shitshow against a team as bad as us and who came looking not to lose

I think you're right, it was a poor performance today, many players under par.

But I think the reason people are seeing positives is because of how bad we were earlier in the season. We were that bad, particularly defensively, that we're content just looking like a proper side at the back. Not having to bite out nails every time the opposition cross the half way line. We look like a proper team now. A crap team, but a proper XI at least. We were an embarrassment before.

The only thing I'd disagree with is your assessment of Diagne. I think he's a massive improvement on what we had before. I think the opposition defence had it easy against Grant or Robbo, where as Diagne is a real handful who fights for ever ball. He gets us up the pitch and gives us more balance. Don't get me wrong, he has his flaws and was poor today, but he has something about him. I think he would score goals in a side that creates, attacks with purpose and get crosses in early like the one Gallagher delivered against Man United. He just has that knack of sniffing out a chance. Most of his chances for us he's made himself.

He's exceeded my expectations as an unknown coming from an inferior league for nothing.

Do think it was a big cock up by Sam by not replacing Pereira with Snodgrass though. He's a player capable of delivering those dangerous balls into the box rather than Pereira's floaties into the goalkeepers arms.

[Dingle-Dingle]

Hate to say BUT I fell asleep in the chair after about 10 mins, and I had no beer.

DD

[Zinman]

Start the rebuild now. And start by identifying a manager who actually encourages creative, attacking football, not one who relies on set pieces and hopeful crosses in to the big lump up front. We have the nucleus of a good Championship team (with the addition of a Yokuslu equivalent) and need to look at giving some of the youngsters (Morton, Palmer, Richards) at least a chance from the bench. But we need a manager capable of doing this.

[BaggieSteve]

It’s interesting how we view a game differently  

I have no issue with the effort from the players but that’s about the sum total of that performance. I honestly think that was the worst home performance under Allardyce and, yes, I haven’t forgotten Villa, Leeds and Arsenal. Those were teams that had attacking players with attacking intent and who were vastly superior to our eleven. Today, Newcastle were missing their 3 most influential out players (it would have been a different game had they been playing I reckon), so they came not to lose and, if possible, catch us on the break. Despite that, and the expected amount of possession we had, we created bugger all, just a couple of half chances - chances that a team with some semblance of attacking ability might have converted but we don’t have that. All the effort and possession in the world is only useful if you do something with it and we didn’t. This had 0-0 written over it after about 10 minutes. Allardyce has undoubtedly improved the defence and Yokuslu is the defensive midfielder we have needed all season but he has done nothing to improve us as an attacking threat.  
We have all been critical of Grant - and justifiably- but if Diagne is the answer then what’s the question? Let’s be honest , for all his physical presence, he’s in the team to score goals. He’s managed 1, been offside countless times and missed a good few sitters. I can’t help thinking that we have acquired the Senegalese Joelinton - on today’s showing, I’d take the latter.
If others can take positives from today, then great. For me, it was a shitshow against a team as bad as us and who came looking not to lose

I think you're right, it was a poor performance today, many players under par.

But I think the reason people are seeing positives is because of how bad we were earlier in the season. We were that bad, particularly defensively, that we're content just looking like a proper side at the back. Not having to bite out nails every time the opposition cross the half way line. We look like a proper team now. A crap team, but a proper XI at least. We were an embarrassment before.

The only thing I'd disagree with is your assessment of Diagne. I think he's a massive improvement on what we had before. I think the opposition defence had it easy against Grant or Robbo, where as Diagne is a real handful who fights for ever ball. He gets us up the pitch and gives us more balance. Don't get me wrong, he has his flaws and was poor today, but he has something about him. I think he would score goals in a side that creates, attacks with purpose and get crosses in early like the one Gallagher delivered against Man United. He just has that knack of sniffing out a chance. Most of his chances for us he's made himself.

He's exceeded my expectations as an unknown coming from an inferior league for nothing.

Do think it was a big cock up by Sam by not replacing Pereira with Snodgrass though. He's a player capable of delivering those dangerous balls into the box rather than Pereira's floaties into the goalkeepers arms.

Slick, I think we’ll have to disagree on Diagne. You’re spot on that he’s an improvement on what we had but the bar was so low that I might have had a chance at 65. He’s very different to what we had in Grant, Robinson and HRK but I don’t think he’s effective. He has no pace and is not mobile but he does have strength. I don’t have a problem with Allardyce signing him, let’s face it the options were severely limited; I just don’t think he’s much cop. It would help him hugely if we created chances, as you say, but when we have he’s missed them. To be fair, with our lack of creativity, Kane, Aguerro and Vardy would struggle.
Totally agree with your comment on Snodgrass; Pereira was completely ineffective and, if nothing else, Snodgrass would have delivered decent corners

[Zinman]

I can agree with the criticism of Periera to some extent...but he was fantastic when he had players running ahead of him into space, whether that was Diangana, Robinson, Furlong and occasionally HRK. Now there's nothing ahead of him except a static Diagne, nobody looking to run into the channels behind the defence, so he ends up having to either pass sideways or hit a hopeful cross into the middle. If we are going to rely on crosses to the big man up front, why is Allardyce playing the wingers on the wrong wing so they can't deliver from the bye-line?

[Slick_Footwork]

I can agree with the criticism of Periera to some extent...but he was fantastic when he had players running ahead of him into space, whether that was Diangana, Robinson, Furlong and occasionally HRK. Now there's nothing ahead of him except a static Diagne, nobody looking to run into the channels behind the defence, so he ends up having to either pass sideways or hit a hopeful cross into the middle. If we are going to rely on crosses to the big man up front, why is Allardyce playing the wingers on the wrong wing so they can't deliver from the bye-line?

That's the dilemma with Pereira...

As you allude to, he is capable of picking that killer pass. But that's offset with his lack of work rate, pressing and non-existent defensive contribution.

But I feel as well as the lack of options, he's also struggling with the pace of the league. He had presentable opportunities today and just ended up picking the wrong pass or being ponderous so he had to turn backwards. When you don't have that extra yard of pace, you have to adapt your game to be suitable for the Premier League and I don't think he's bothered.

Look at Jarrod Bowen at West Ham, when they signed him from Hull he was absolutely prolific in the Championship. However he's gone to West Ham and played a team role. Said Benrahma is having to do the same thing too because that's what it takes to succeed in this division. I'm not sure Pereira has that will to win. He's still swanning about like we're top of the league. Also he looks like he's carrying a few extra lbs as well.

I think he's the type of player who will end up going to the Chinese or Saudi league and being the star man... Taking the easy route...

As for the wingers, I think the idea is for them to cut in and shoot. Also because they couldn't beat an egg, Sam wants the full backs to get past them and put crosses in. It certainly seems to be a feature of the play how high and wide they have been since he come in. However it doesn't help when most of Furlong's crosses go completely out. So he'd probably be best to just play the wingers on their proper sides.

[Salopbaggie]

People still criticising Pereira's lack of defensive work, I thought the last couple of games he has been much better. Don't let him defend in the area though

[BaggieSteve]

I think Slick and Zinman are both right about Pereira. I believe there is no doubt he has talent but last year we were playing a style of football that better suited him, helped by the fact that it was in the Championship where he had more time on the ball. There was no target man, but rather runners in advance of him. This year, it's different and he's not adjusted at all well but, then again, not many have. Our problem seems to be that, if he's not creating opportunities, I don't see anyone else who would.

[Stairs]

Not forgetting Colin Suggett - I had his number on my Albion shirt as a kid

No matter what your view on this game the outcome is almost inevitable relegation.

With that comes the departure of loan players and the sale of any decent players - Johnstone, Bartley I guess at least.

We were defensively more sound so maybe 10 games and 10 draws is the same as 3 wins and we might over take Newcastle and Fulham. But really grasping at straws with that.

We will rebuild but sadly in true Albion style we won’t approach it with conviction and we will just have a last minute late summer panic buy after the season has started in order to have a full squad and then we will fumble our way to a play off position.

Sorry it is that time of the season and as (almost) always I am saddened and hate my Uncle for taking me to see Coventry v West Brom back in the mid sixties.

Ah but Stairs, your uncle also gave you the chance to see The King, Bomber, Cyrille, Laurie, Derek Statham, Trigger, Zoltan, Superkev and countless others who have made supporting the Baggies. There has been countless dross as well but I’ve blanked those out. Good days will come again, although we may have to be patient