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RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - spireitematt - 16-12-2019
I would have liked to have seen Caroline Flint or Laura Smith as leader but they lost their seats. Tracy Brabin or Dan Jarvis would be alright in my opinion. It looks like it will be Rebecca Long-Bailey for the leadership and Richard Burgon as the Deputy leadership.
Momentum don't seem to understand that membership of the Labour Party doesn't win elections. 500,000 isn't going to win a General Election. It's the same with social media, on social media on Wednesday/Thursday the young generation thought that Labour were going to win because of everyone they follow or are friends with were voting Labour but the thing is they live in echo chambers online on Twitter and Facebook etc and if you don't agree with them then they will block you. Social media isn't representative of the country and how the country thinks. Twitter and Facebook isn't real life. Yes Labour were loud online but they were also aggressive especially Momentum activists who were hiding behind keyboards and also avatars, I noticed that if someone had a different opinion to them on a policy or anything they would tell them to 'xxxx off and join the tories'.
The silent majority are the one's who will help win elections. This happened in the EU referendum and the Scottish independence referendum and it will happen again if there is another Scottish independence referendum. By shouting people down online or giving them verbal abuse isn't going to get them to come round to your way of thinking, you have to do that by being calm, using facts and using rational debate and logic. People need to realise that everyone will have different views and opinions and people might not like that or agree with it but it's life and the more you scream and shout and give abuse the more that people will stick by those views and opinions.
Corbyn wanted to create a 'kinder and gentler politics' but I think it's gone totally opposite the other way round. Politics in this country is so divisive and there is a lot of anger going around on both sides of the debate and the whole of the Country is split into two camps, Remain or Leave or Labour and Conservative. The same will be happening in Scotland where people are split into independence or unionists. A lot of people on Friday morning said to people who didn't vote Conservative 'You lost get over it' or calling them 'Losers'. I'm sorry but politics isn't a football match where the team which lost goes home until the next match, it doesn't work like that because when one person loses out we all lose out.
Brexit has divided the country, it has divided communities, families, friendships, generations and it is now dividing our politics. There is no right or wrong answer to it either, it's like a rhetorical question, everyone has a different view and opinion on it and there will never be a general consensus on the matter. One person is responsible for all this mess and that person is David Cameron, he put party politics and his own ambition over the country and it backfired and history will not look too kindly on him.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 16-12-2019
Burgon is an intellectual black hole, no way should he be deputy leader.
Labour have to at least be seen to be moving towards the middle ground, I'm not sure Rebecca long Bailey is that character. But with the boundary changes coming up labours priority has to be winning the towns in the north and midlands, that rules out kier starmer and Emily thornberry who are too closely linked to the remain campaign.
At least RLB won't have the baggage Corbyn and McDonnell had, but she isn't in my mind the right kind of leader for labour going forward.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - Lord Snooty - 16-12-2019
We need a personality leader. Someone with the charisma that Blair had.
Is there anybody who fits that bill?
Doesn't matter who we get though, he will be smeared by the media. I say he, it doesn't bear thinking what the evil bastards would get on a female leader. I would suggest Tracy Brabin, but she's too nice to face such monstrous character assassination.
They, of course, murdered who was destined to be a potential leader in Jo Cox. I say they, meaning just some moron. Didn't mean the Tories.
Yes Matt, Cameron is to blame, but you have to think in hindsight, it was a brilliant move if his intention was to kill the Labour Party.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - 0762 - 16-12-2019
(16-12-2019, 02:38)spireitematt Wrote: I would have liked to have seen Caroline Flint or Laura Smith as leader but they lost their seats. Tracy Brabin or Dan Jarvis would be alright in my opinion. It looks like it will be Rebecca Long-Bailey for the leadership and Richard Burgon as the Deputy leadership.
Momentum don't seem to understand that membership of the Labour Party doesn't win elections. 500,000 isn't going to win a General Election. It's the same with social media, on social media on Wednesday/Thursday the young generation thought that Labour were going to win because of everyone they follow or are friends with were voting Labour but the thing is they live in echo chambers online on Twitter and Facebook etc and if you don't agree with them then they will block you. Social media isn't representative of the country and how the country thinks. Twitter and Facebook isn't real life. Yes Labour were loud online but they were also aggressive especially Momentum activists who were hiding behind keyboards and also avatars, I noticed that if someone had a different opinion to them on a policy or anything they would tell them to 'xxxx off and join the tories'.
The silent majority are the one's who will help win elections. This happened in the EU referendum and the Scottish independence referendum and it will happen again if there is another Scottish independence referendum. By shouting people down online or giving them verbal abuse isn't going to get them to come round to your way of thinking, you have to do that by being calm, using facts and using rational debate and logic. People need to realise that everyone will have different views and opinions and people might not like that or agree with it but it's life and the more you scream and shout and give abuse the more that people will stick by those views and opinions.
Corbyn wanted to create a 'kinder and gentler politics' but I think it's gone totally opposite the other way round. Politics in this country is so divisive and there is a lot of anger going around on both sides of the debate and the whole of the Country is split into two camps, Remain or Leave or Labour and Conservative. The same will be happening in Scotland where people are split into independence or unionists. A lot of people on Friday morning said to people who didn't vote Conservative 'You lost get over it' or calling them 'Losers'. I'm sorry but politics isn't a football match where the team which lost goes home until the next match, it doesn't work like that because when one person loses out we all lose out.
Brexit has divided the country, it has divided communities, families, friendships, generations and it is now dividing our politics. There is no right or wrong answer to it either, it's like a rhetorical question, everyone has a different view and opinion on it and there will never be a general consensus on the matter. One person is responsible for all this mess and that person is David Cameron, he put party politics and his own ambition over the country and it backfired and history will not look too kindly on him.
Very good comments and re the last para I'd mention the events of the 1930s in Germany where what you are describing escalated into preaching evangelically about Hitler and the philosophy of hate in the form of Naz##m and bullying/brainwashing (state media techniques used) people into accepting their new philosophy and the wonderful future that awaits the "believers". I'm assuming most of us know exactly what happened and once the destruction of the country eventually came about at the end of WWII, all these "winners"/preachers of the new German era effectively "disappeared into the shadows" while many millions of them perished with their cause burning around them and the worst offenders who preached and imposed this shit were either executed, fled the country or committed suicide. THERE IS AN ABJECT LESSON IN THE POPULIST OBJECTIVE OF CREATING CHAOS WITHIN A COUNTRY'S BORDERS!!!! Brexit is another one of these "causes" that has been peddled with deceit whilst also demonising certain groups of people and it is no different from the events that unfolded in 1930s Germany when the Hindenburg govt gave way to the advent of Hitler and a revitalised "cause" to rectify a "wrong" against Germany at the end of WWI when the harsh armistice demands were imposed on them by their targeted enemies. I could go on but just wanna say that my family background gives me a qualified reflection back to many events in 1930s Germany and Eastern Europe that are so similar to what is happening in England and NOT IN SCOTLAND as is being slightly inferred in part of the thread. I've refuted the extreme nationalism inference before and I will continue to refute that suggestion as much as hibeejim has similarly dismissed it. Of course there is a disconnect between unionists up here and the Scottish quest for self-determination but we are not going around trying to kill each other although sadly there will always be a minority who thrive on this kinda behaviour - many unionists up here display an unhealthy fanaticism and angst that have been endured for years and it is not right!!! The SNP quest for self-determination is a peaceful one and it has been for years. It also embraces internationalism and a common cause to welcome and embrace all creeds of people and govern for the good and well-being of the whole population. It is not an arrogant, bullying philosophy that "I am better than thee because I am of a superior nationality and class to thee" - nothing of the sort and the Scottish population recognise that fact and the pragmatic, progressive role of the elected government that has presided in Scotland for well over a decade and, although not perfect, has been consistently well backed during that period and that last landslide election result on Friday confirmed that positive endorsement. Many people in Scotland, incl myself, previously endured a bullying, patronising Tory govt in the form of Thatcherism that meted out untold damage that reverberated throughout the country for years. I'm not wanting any more of that shite from another worse form of British govt that is thriving on populist principles and policies and there are millions like me who share the same sentiments and will push ourselves to take on the challenges that will definitely ensue against a southern government that is not our ally. I'd also add that Northern Ireland is now "in the same boat" and "not in tune" with what is happening in England either although their politics are historically different from Scotland.
Lastly, Matt re part of para 3 "By shouting people down online or giving them verbal abuse isn't going to get them to come round to your way of thinking, you have to do that by being calm, using facts and using rational debate and logic" - please note the SNP intend to do exactly what you've described and they will issue a consultation leaflet to EVERY HOUSEHOLD in Scotland with the main objective being to "talk to the nation" re all the issues and pitfalls that will face Scotland when it becomes independent - THEY WANT TO TRY AND DEBATE RATIONALLY WITH EVERYONE INCLUDING MANY SCEPTICS IN SCOTLAND AND OTHERS WHO I THINK CAN BE CONVINCED AND HAVE A "LEANING" TOWARDS SELF-DETERMINATION. I've no doubt there is a potential surge of support that needs to be captivated with the proper dialogue and assurances! This massive consultation exercise will be people-funded and I have already donated towards this great idea. I'm sure many more backers of Scotindy are doing the same.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - Amelia Chaffinch - 17-12-2019
Search BBC News Burnley on Twitter to read about 2 zero hour contract workers living in a bedsit voted Tory because Boris will sort it out. And that's how red turned blue. I don't know whether it's a lack of brain cells or a brilliant campaign. Either way, I can only see disappointment for those 2 voters.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 17-12-2019
Saw that as well Amelia. England has the most politically naive electorate in the world.
Hell mend them.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - St Charles Owl - 17-12-2019
(17-12-2019, 00:50)hibeejim21 Wrote: Saw that as well Amelia. England has the most politically naive electorate in the world.
Hell mend them.
I might have to raise you with this and call out the Yanks, or at least 63m of them!!!!!
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - Lord Snooty - 17-12-2019
Emily Thornberry is suing Caroline Flint because Flint said that Thornberry said that voters were thick.
Well whether she said it or not, they most certainly are.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - 0762 - 17-12-2019
You are absolutely right Amelia 100%. These Tories (by name only!) are laughing "all the way to the bank" and I know, and you know, they favour their own wealthy people/backers - they have done it before and they will do it again with impunity now that the English electorate has emphatically given them the "green light" to shit all over us and increase the "poverty gap" even more than the record gap that the UK holds compared with any other European country!! They don't care for people or a caring society - the previous misdemeanours against vulnerable people from a less extreme Tory government is a giveaway!! Two poor workers in a bedsit at least voted but what a wasted vote for these ill-informed individuals - how tragic!! On a different note, did you listen to the triumphant "squeals" from that little two-faced Tory bastard, Michael Gove, re his great pleasure to side with the Tory-supporting mining community in Wakefield who ignored their Labour grassroots in this General Election!!!
That must make your blood curdle surely!!?? And I'm ashamed to say this insincere scumbag of a human being is actually Scottish but he will rarely "show his face" up here in the country of his birth. An adopted boy in the NE of Scotland, didn't he do well eh - but what happened to his morality, honour, sincerity, humility??????? Probably all corrupted by some desire for power and driven by sheer greed and it is all about him and his unscrupulous buddies!! We are days away from moving into the 2020s and, my god, I despair at what lies ahead as the British govt is not moving forward as a progressive govt embracing all communities and categories of people who require help to improve their lives. They will pick and choose to suit their narrow ultra-right dictatorial agenda that is aligned with the wealthy elite - the real people who have made this happen in the biggest conspiracy that you will ever witness in your life time and they have "got away with it"!! Or have they? One can only hope that one "almighty political explosion" could still materialise in a country where it seems to have been forgotten that a huge portion of the population still don't want Brexit and are not into that bogus mantra to "just get it done"!!!!
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - Amelia Chaffinch - 17-12-2019
If I didn't have to suffer along with the working class numpties that voted for them, I would be waiting eagerly to say "I told you so".