(15-12-2019, 12:57)hibeejim21 Wrote: Thats the problem labour have going forward - I mean its easy to blame Corbyn but labours vote in these areas has been dropping since blair. - How do they appeal to the 'stoopid vote' without selling their democratic socialist roots out ?

I'm of the opinion we need a strong labour party in England to achieve independence. From the current crop of potential leaders only Starmer looks electable, but is he going to appeal on the doorsteps in middle England ?

The gigs fucked.

(15-12-2019, 18:28)0762 Wrote: You could replace the "dumb" description with "buffoon" SCO because that was a common enough word used to describe Johnson throughout England. All that he and his fascist party did was provide that one soundbite - "Get Brexit Done". It was direct, robotic and to the point because a lotta the population in England were obsessed with and favoured Brexit. As you say, and has been often said throughout this OP - Corbyn "sat on the fence" and dithered instead of "choosing a side" and, more importantly, READING THEIR POLITICAL SITUATION IN ENGLAND PROPERLY. Also why did the fool walk into that election trap and agree to having a Xmas election and then comment, "I've been assured there will be no hard Brexit"????? Somebody explain that to me because I thought he was an absolute idiot to concede to a Xmas GE!!!!???? The SNP wanted that election because they had a solid plan and it was successful!!!! In Scotland, the SNP similarly advertised a direct decisive message to a population that they knew intimately in a political sense - Stop Brexit, stop Johnson (despised in Scotland!!!) and vote SNP if you want independence for Scotland - it was a clear message and mandate and it attained a landslide victory with only a handful of MPs, all Tory, who are left in Scotland to preach to a Scot population about their pro Brexit vision - none of the other elected MPs, obviously incl SNP, want Brexit!! These remaining Tory MPs are now being "terrorised" as I speak - they are living in the wrong country with a different political philosophy and they've been shocked by this landslide victory! I wasn't - I predicted it (49 seats said I and missed it by 1 seat!) and expected Johnson's win as well due to many of the reasons previously debated in this OP!

(15-12-2019, 18:28)0762 Wrote: You could replace the "dumb" description with "buffoon" SCO because that was a common enough word used to describe Johnson throughout England. All that he and his fascist party did was provide that one soundbite - "Get Brexit Done". It was direct, robotic and to the point because a lotta the population in England were obsessed with and favoured Brexit. As you say, and has been often said throughout this OP - Corbyn "sat on the fence" and dithered instead of "choosing a side" and, more importantly, READING THEIR POLITICAL SITUATION IN ENGLAND PROPERLY. Also why did the fool walk into that election trap and agree to having a Xmas election and then comment, "I've been assured there will be no hard Brexit"????? Somebody explain that to me because I thought he was an absolute idiot to concede to a Xmas GE!!!!???? The SNP wanted that election because they had a solid plan and it was successful!!!! In Scotland, the SNP similarly advertised a direct decisive message to a population that they knew intimately in a political sense - Stop Brexit, stop Johnson (despised in Scotland!!!) and vote SNP if you want independence for Scotland - it was a clear message and mandate and it attained a landslide victory with only a handful of MPs, all Tory, who are left in Scotland to preach to a Scot population about their pro Brexit vision - none of the other elected MPs, obviously incl SNP, want Brexit!! These remaining Tory MPs are now being "terrorised" as I speak - they are living in the wrong country with a different political philosophy and they've been shocked by this landslide victory! I wasn't - I predicted it (49 seats said I and missed it by 1 seat!) and expected Johnson's win as well due to many of the reasons previously debated in this OP!

(15-12-2019, 17:57)St Charles Owl Wrote: Whichever way you want to allocate the names dumb and dumber to BJ and Corbyn, traditional Labour supporters voted with their feet that Corbyn could not be trusted with the top job!!  Corbyn found himself in between a rock and hard place with regards to Brexit, Labour constituencies in their droves vote to Leave but the Party officially wanted to remain, and throughout the last three years he has dithered time after time as to what his or the party line is with regard to the result and the way forward.  He needed to lead the party, he needed to make a decision where they stood on Brexit and then provide his leadership and justify why the party with him at the head of it was making this decision, and then he had to lead the party and fight for that position!!  But he ended up promising a new referendum to a population who clearly was fed up with it all and certainly didn’t want to drag it out with another referendum, he had to either back Brexit or back scrapping it, and he once again dithered as Wakey put it.

(15-12-2019, 19:26)hibeejim21 Wrote:

(15-12-2019, 17:57)St Charles Owl Wrote: Whichever way you want to allocate the names dumb and dumber to BJ and Corbyn, traditional Labour supporters voted with their feet that Corbyn could not be trusted with the top job!!  Corbyn found himself in between a rock and hard place with regards to Brexit, Labour constituencies in their droves vote to Leave but the Party officially wanted to remain, and throughout the last three years he has dithered time after time as to what his or the party line is with regard to the result and the way forward.  He needed to lead the party, he needed to make a decision where they stood on Brexit and then provide his leadership and justify why the party with him at the head of it was making this decision, and then he had to lead the party and fight for that position!!  But he ended up promising a new referendum to a population who clearly was fed up with it all and certainly didn’t want to drag it out with another referendum, he had to either back Brexit or back scrapping it, and he once again dithered as Wakey put it.

Centrist politics in England is dead now, we have a very right wing government in power now. Like I said there are 2 different sets of labour voters, and 2 different sets of labour politicians. They need someone to unite them fast or they could be lost for good!