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+--- Thread: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... (/showthread.php?tid=8947)
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - 0762 - 14-12-2019
LS re that end line, I have absolutely no doubt that the contemptuous neglect and disregard of a real impending crisis will come back to "bite Johnson on the bum" together with many other political leaders of a similar ilk!! That eventuality is inevitable and it is curious to watch traditional politicians "sleepwalking" towards this crisis and not proactively focusing on the solutions and assistance for communities that will require them from a caring govt. This bunch of Tories (in name only!) is not a caring govt!!!!
I notice Corbyn is not taking the blame for that historical total collapse of his Labour Party's campaign!!? Well whose fault was it then?? Was he already "ripped apart beyond repair" by that ever faithful Tory RW "press machine" and demonised on social media with millions of quid "ploughed in" by Aaaron Banks and others?? There is a possible "huge story" in there as well as acknowledging the role of Farage in ensuring Johnson's success is more significant than many people think after analysing the results. His Brexit Party never "got a looking" up here in Scotland because most Scots sussed him out a long time ago and despise the man - a grinning, deceptive fascist who has been a huge factor in imposing irreparable damage to the socio-political fabric of the country. Watch for his "bung" being handed out to him by this fascist govt in the form of a Royal "gong" - arise Sir Nigel - that'll be "right up his street" and will "raise the hackles" re a system of recognition in England that recognises this moron. Lets hope it does not materialise and he is double-crossed!! Also I noticed today there are already mass protests in Glasgow re Johnson's election and vocally called a wanker and GTF Johnson - a newly elected UK PM told "where he stands" up here in Scotland lol!!! Remember this is the same guy who called Scots "verminous" in a poem published in the Spectator a good no of years ago when he was a hack!! He is despised up here with a passion and will be a "catalyst" for independence!!Lastly, I'll conclude this thread by repeating my sincere sympathy to the lotsa good people on this board who will be alarmed to see the advent of a fascist political party that is Conservative in name only and IMO will be worse than the horrible Thatcher govt that many of us endured from 1979 to the early 90s and then even more Tory rule until 1997 - absolutely intolerable and these people just don't go away!! I may start up a new "Johnson watch" OP but at the mo I just don't have the enthusiasm to chart a probable depressing period in British politics for lots n lots people in this country. It will be unavoidable and, as Amelia previously commented - GOD HELP US!! NOBODY CAN PREACH TO ME ABOUT TRUE DEMOCRATIC VALUES IN THE NAME OF BREXIT!!
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 14-12-2019
(13-12-2019, 20:18)spireitematt Wrote: Seat where I live has turned Tory but only just there was just under 600 votes in it.
Labour lost this election because back in 2017 they stood on a manifesto saying they would respect the EU referendum but after 2017, Corbyn sat on the fence trying to please both the Remainers and the Leavers in the party and in this election he said he would give another referendum on the issue. Labour have become too London centric and too middle class and they took the heartlands for granted, we have to remember a lot of the now former Labour heartlands voted Leave in the 2016 referendum and they felt ignored by Labour not just in the 2016 referendum but for such a long time. We also have to look at the fact that Corbyn was hugely disliked by the electorate and the manifesto was not realistic and just one big wish list.
I knew this was coming because he had no clear direction on Brexit, he should have come out for Leave and said he was going to get a deal instead of sitting on the fence and trying to please everyone.
Corbyn has to go now, I thought he should have gone after 2017 but people hailed 2017 as a win when it wasn't. Momentum, the militants, the marxists and the far left need to xxxx off otherwise Labour will never win another election. Labour need to move back to the centre left and the party needs a leader who can build a credible opposition who can take on the Tories but they also need to get out of this middle class, London, Westminister bubble and go to places like the North, Wales, Scotland and speak and ask the people what they want instead of thinking they know what's best for them. They need to work with the working classes and not just put an arm around them and say we are with you.
Labour have lost 4 elections in a row and it's very very likely they will lose in 2024 because of the big majority that the Conservatives have got it would have to take something really really special to overturn that.
A lot of that is very true matt, but to be fair to Corbyn he couldn't have come out for leave even if he wanted to, because the vast majority of the PLP and the membership were pro-remain.
What was interesting was hearing midlands voters talking about Jeremy. They hated corbyn but they couldn't really explain why... they just did. The media really did a number on him.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - spireitematt - 14-12-2019
(14-12-2019, 14:41)hibeejim21 Wrote:(13-12-2019, 20:18)spireitematt Wrote: Seat where I live has turned Tory but only just there was just under 600 votes in it.
Labour lost this election because back in 2017 they stood on a manifesto saying they would respect the EU referendum but after 2017, Corbyn sat on the fence trying to please both the Remainers and the Leavers in the party and in this election he said he would give another referendum on the issue. Labour have become too London centric and too middle class and they took the heartlands for granted, we have to remember a lot of the now former Labour heartlands voted Leave in the 2016 referendum and they felt ignored by Labour not just in the 2016 referendum but for such a long time. We also have to look at the fact that Corbyn was hugely disliked by the electorate and the manifesto was not realistic and just one big wish list.
I knew this was coming because he had no clear direction on Brexit, he should have come out for Leave and said he was going to get a deal instead of sitting on the fence and trying to please everyone.
Corbyn has to go now, I thought he should have gone after 2017 but people hailed 2017 as a win when it wasn't. Momentum, the militants, the marxists and the far left need to xxxx off otherwise Labour will never win another election. Labour need to move back to the centre left and the party needs a leader who can build a credible opposition who can take on the Tories but they also need to get out of this middle class, London, Westminister bubble and go to places like the North, Wales, Scotland and speak and ask the people what they want instead of thinking they know what's best for them. They need to work with the working classes and not just put an arm around them and say we are with you.
Labour have lost 4 elections in a row and it's very very likely they will lose in 2024 because of the big majority that the Conservatives have got it would have to take something really really special to overturn that.
A lot of that is very true matt, but to be fair to Corbyn he couldn't have come out for leave even if he wanted to, because the vast majority of the PLP and the membership were pro-remain.
What was interesting was hearing midlands voters talking about Jeremy. They hated corbyn but they couldn't really explain why... they just did. The media really did a number on him.
I agree but even if Labour had come out for Remain the result would be the same or even worse. The Leavers thought Labour is a remain party and the Remainers thought it was a leave party.
Someone I know voted Conservative because his parents vote Conservative.
A woman on my facebook voted for the Conservatives to get rid of the tories not realising they are the same.
The BBC yesterday interviewed people on how they voted and a young woman from Birmingham who is severely disabled said she voted Conservative because they promised the most for disabled people in their manifesto. She said she wasn't aware of what the Conservatives have done to disabled people up until now and isn't interested in that but is interested in what they do now for disabled people.
They also interviewed a man in Lancashire who voted Conservative who didn't know why he voted Conservative but he thinks its because everyone else was.
A woman said she voted Conservative because we've got too many foodbanks and people homeless.
A man voted Conservative because 'Boris was getting to get it done'. By get it done he probably means Brexit.
The thing is when Brexit happens and its not the Brexit the people voted for than they will be up in arms and they'll be protests and riots and the people who voted Conservative on Thursday will be the first ones thrown under the bus when shit hits the fan and there will be more austerity, more cuts, more people homeless, more foodbanks, more poverty, less job security.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - Amelia Chaffinch - 14-12-2019
That's true. Declaring themselves remainers would have lost them more seats. Contrary to popular belief, the leavers are as resolute as before. Those that voted remain in my experience have said they accept the decision and just want it sorted now. There was never a chance that leavers were going to change. I still believe that if democracy had not been adhered to there would have been serious trouble on these streets. You hadn't even begun to hear the passion from the ordinary people who voted leave yet.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 14-12-2019
Thing is now Boris has such a big majority he doesn't really need the ERG, so he can pursue a Brexit in name only kind of situation if he really wants too. He has much more leeway in what he can do.
There is a great thread on Twitter from a Labour canveser on what he encountered on the doorstep. The part that resonated with me most was the charge of Anti Semitism against Labour and Corbyn. It wasn't that people really gave a flying fig about Jews - it was that it meant Corbyn was, by implication, a supporter of Muslims and Islam. The English working class want Britain to be about British - and Muslims, what with their ninja outfits and Halal food, just aren't getting with the programme.
That makes most sense to me. if Labour wants back in power, it needs to go back to a socialist-light model and get itself a more charismatic leader.
(14-12-2019, 15:44)spireitematt Wrote:(14-12-2019, 14:41)hibeejim21 Wrote:(13-12-2019, 20:18)spireitematt Wrote: Seat where I live has turned Tory but only just there was just under 600 votes in it.
Labour lost this election because back in 2017 they stood on a manifesto saying they would respect the EU referendum but after 2017, Corbyn sat on the fence trying to please both the Remainers and the Leavers in the party and in this election he said he would give another referendum on the issue. Labour have become too London centric and too middle class and they took the heartlands for granted, we have to remember a lot of the now former Labour heartlands voted Leave in the 2016 referendum and they felt ignored by Labour not just in the 2016 referendum but for such a long time. We also have to look at the fact that Corbyn was hugely disliked by the electorate and the manifesto was not realistic and just one big wish list.
I knew this was coming because he had no clear direction on Brexit, he should have come out for Leave and said he was going to get a deal instead of sitting on the fence and trying to please everyone.
Corbyn has to go now, I thought he should have gone after 2017 but people hailed 2017 as a win when it wasn't. Momentum, the militants, the marxists and the far left need to xxxx off otherwise Labour will never win another election. Labour need to move back to the centre left and the party needs a leader who can build a credible opposition who can take on the Tories but they also need to get out of this middle class, London, Westminister bubble and go to places like the North, Wales, Scotland and speak and ask the people what they want instead of thinking they know what's best for them. They need to work with the working classes and not just put an arm around them and say we are with you.
Labour have lost 4 elections in a row and it's very very likely they will lose in 2024 because of the big majority that the Conservatives have got it would have to take something really really special to overturn that.
A lot of that is very true matt, but to be fair to Corbyn he couldn't have come out for leave even if he wanted to, because the vast majority of the PLP and the membership were pro-remain.
What was interesting was hearing midlands voters talking about Jeremy. They hated corbyn but they couldn't really explain why... they just did. The media really did a number on him.
I agree but even if Labour had come out for Remain the result would be the same or even worse. The Leavers thought Labour is a remain party and the Remainers thought it was a leave party.
Someone I know voted Conservative because his parents vote Conservative.
A woman on my facebook voted for the Conservatives to get rid of the tories not realising they are the same.
The BBC yesterday interviewed people on how they voted and a young woman from Birmingham who is severely disabled said she voted Conservative because they promised the most for disabled people in their manifesto. She said she wasn't aware of what the Conservatives have done to disabled people up until now and isn't interested in that but is interested in what they do now for disabled people.
They also interviewed a man in Lancashire who voted Conservative who didn't know why he voted Conservative but he thinks its because everyone else was.
A woman said she voted Conservative because we've got too many foodbanks and people homeless.
A man voted Conservative because 'Boris was getting to get it done'. By get it done he probably means Brexit.
The thing is when Brexit happens and its not the Brexit the people voted for than they will be up in arms and they'll be protests and riots and the people who voted Conservative on Thursday will be the first ones thrown under the bus when shit hits the fan and there will be more austerity, more cuts, more people homeless, more foodbanks, more poverty, less job security.
They have no idea what the 'brexit they voted for' is. No one was asked.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - St Charles Owl - 14-12-2019
(14-12-2019, 17:14)hibeejim21 Wrote: They have no idea what the 'brexit the voted for' is. No one was asked.
I had this exact conversation with some friends when I was back in Sheffield last month, I said that a no deal is not what people voted for when they voted Leave, but to a man those that voted leave said they didn't care, they just wanted out. I found most people really had no idea what impact a no deal would have, what effect it will have on trade etc. I work for a company based in Sheffield that is 85% export, a no deal and cetrainly a no trade deal will cost us a lot of money while we wait for trade deals to be sorted!!!
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 14-12-2019
(14-12-2019, 17:57)St Charles Owl Wrote:(14-12-2019, 17:14)hibeejim21 Wrote: They have no idea what the 'brexit the voted for' is. No one was asked.
I had this exact conversation with some friends when I was back in Sheffield last month, I said that a no deal is not what people voted for when they voted Leave, but to a man those that voted leave said they didn't care, they just wanted out. I found most people really had no idea what impact a no deal would have, what effect it will have on trade etc. I work for a company based in Sheffield that is 85% export, a no deal and cetrainly a no trade deal will cost us a lot of money while we wait for trade deals to be sorted!!!
I honestly don't think a lot of people realise how xxxx catastrophic a 'no deal' brexit would be. But hey, lets just 'get brexit done'.
You all know what I think anyway - whole thing is a smokescreen for tax avoidance and a scam for vulture capitalists.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - 0762 - 15-12-2019
(14-12-2019, 17:57)St Charles Owl Wrote:(14-12-2019, 17:14)hibeejim21 Wrote: They have no idea what the 'brexit the voted for' is. No one was asked.
I had this exact conversation with some friends when I was back in Sheffield last month, I said that a no deal is not what people voted for when they voted Leave, but to a man those that voted leave said they didn't care, they just wanted out. I found most people really had no idea what impact a no deal would have, what effect it will have on trade etc. I work for a company based in Sheffield that is 85% export, a no deal and cetrainly a no trade deal will cost us a lot of money while we wait for trade deals to be sorted!!!
Trump famously called that "the stoopid vote" (lotsa these people out there!!) that could be so beneficial to him before he eventually became US President - I previously watched and listened to that exact conversation on a filmed documentary that was done a few years before 2016 - so apt and similarly beneficial for a populist cause as the UK amazingly becomes another global "victim" of the same methodology to manipulate a population and obtain the desired populist outcome!! That American Ultra right wing conniving monster, Steve Bannon, will be so pleased!! The spread of populism continues as planned in his "master project"!!!
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - hibeejim21 - 15-12-2019
Thats the problem labour have going forward - I mean its easy to blame Corbyn but labours vote in these areas has been dropping since blair. - How do they appeal to the 'stoopid vote' without selling their democratic socialist roots out ?
I'm of the opinion we need a strong labour party in England to achieve independence. From the current crop of potential leaders only Starmer looks electable, but is he going to appeal on the doorsteps in middle England ?
The gigs fucked.
RE: A UK General Election and Trump already "sticking his nose" in it.... - WakeyTerrier - 15-12-2019
With regard to brexit, none of the general public had a scooby doo about what it entails and thus should never have been given the option to vote on it
With regards to Corbyn, he just dithered on everything which showed he couldn’t be trusted to do the job of PM in my opinion