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+----- Thread: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? (/showthread.php?tid=7922)
In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Devongone - 19-12-2018
So Jose was finally forced to bite the dust. He was miserable anyway. His team wasn't happy. United found a reason for being what it was anyway .......
Manchester United is dysfunctional. It is directionless. No-one from Woodward down seems ever to have grasped the basic requirements of running a football club. For Woodward, could we just read Ashley Carson? For several years now they've been patching up the leaky old ship and hoping that some miracle of the prevailing wind would help them gain ground on their fresher, richer and more innovative rival in Manchester. Mourinho wasn't the cause of this, he was just another victim.
Manchester United is massively in debt to itself and its decision-making processes have ranged from inordinately slow to randomly over-hasty, with no sign of a long-term plan or perspective into which to fit changes. So the club first splashes money on transfers then decides not to back its manager in the market, whilst its rivals continue to improve. No one knows what they are doing behind the scenes and it reflects on the field of play. The manager becomes even more defensive than he might be naturally, the spectators who imagine their ground the world-centre of free-flowing football first become dissatisfied and, once even the prospect of compensatory trophies recedes, they decide the manager is a dinosaur and call for his head.
Eventually the random decision-making process behind the scenes kicks in after a particularly galling defeat, the crowd gets the head of the dinosaur and the club immediately announces an interim manager on its website and is forced to delete the news almost immediately. Next day the same interim manager is miraculously re-announced. He's a popular smiling guy, but he has no record of success at this level, nor has he ever provided the kind of stunning football for which the fans are longing, given that they have some of the best players in the world that is. It looks like another random decision, half-made, unmade and re-made from the the plugging the holes in the leaky ship school. It might work, and there'll be other fish in the sea by summer.
At our own very low level we are a manchester united, like them we are totally dysfunctional behind the scenes, any wealth we have is actually debt and when we reach the football field our players have all too often played the game in exactly the opposite way to how the fans like it, and the manager has quickly metamorphosed from the exciting newcomer to a middle-aged dinosaur out of touch with the way the "modern" game is going.
And the moral of the story? Fix the club, not the manager, when things start to go against you?
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Dancingwilldoit - 19-12-2018
I kid you not, a Sheff Weds fan has just phoned in on Football Heaven and said "Well I think we should go for Jose Mourinho for our next manager.
Don't know where he had escaped from but by the time I picked myself up off the floor from laughing they had moved to our new CEO.
It seems he wants to draw a line under everything that's happened between the club and the fans. When pushed by the interviewer he more or less stated there would be no apology from up top for last weeks outburst. All I can say is I hope he's got an effing big pen or pencil.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - SaltergateBorn - 19-12-2018
I`m not sure what you expected him to say, Dancing.
I`ve only heard the interview GB did for Spireites Digital – I`ve no idea whether he`s done another, and that`s the one you`re referring to – but what he said in the one I`ve heard seemed to be perfectly reasonable. It was an acknowledgement that there`s been a breakdown in communication and goodwill between the club and the fans and that it`s part of his mandate to try to repair it. I didn`t get any sense at all of his being pushed by the interviewer for an apology over things that have happened in the past; and let`s face it, if one is due – and it may well be - it`s really not his place to give it.
Interesting résumé on the recent history of Man United that you gave there, Dev, and I think most of what you say is completely accurate. Like a lot of blokes my age, I have a soft spot for United – undoubtedly as a result of Munich and its aftermath , which had a big effect on me as a child (I was 8 years old when it happened ) – and it seems to me that the club`s decline really began when the Glazers took over. The effect didn`t show when Fergie was in residence because he was well established, had a proven track record and was a strong enough character for him to be pretty much fireproof. He could stick two fingers up at all of the politics going on around him, which was a privilege that none of his successors were ever going to have.
Personally – and this is only my opinion – I think they should have given David Moyes a lot more time than they did to regenerate an aging squad whose cracks Fergie had plastered over specifically to win the Premier League one last time before he retired. That doesn`t happen overnight. People forget now that Sir Alex himself struggled for the first couple of years and it`s thought by many that he was only an FA Cup replay win and a Mark Robbins goal away from getting sacked himself. (That`s always been denied by the club, of course.)
The analogy between United and CFC is an interesting one and a very accurate one in many ways. The scale of operations is very different obviously, as is the profile of the club, but in terms of the disconnect between the club and the fanbase there are, as you say, many similarities. Going forward, however, I sense that in the short term the prospects for CFC are actually brighter than they are for United. Dave Allen actually wants to sell the club (albeit on his own terms), which he will no doubt do eventually; the Glazers show no such inclination. Martin Allen has a strong enough personality to ride out the storm that`s been going on for the past few months and, strangely enough, is in a stronger position in some ways than José Mourinho because paying off his contract has a far greater financial impact on us than does paying off JM`s. He also has, I believe, a group of honest, hard-working professionals in his squad rather than the super-egos at Old Trafford.
I hope I`m right – I think.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Dancingwilldoit - 20-12-2018
Didn't really expect him to say a lot to be honest SGB. All I was trying to say is that he has a hell of a bridge to build. The fact it is suggested he was approached by Ashley Carson will make some fans jittery. They wont be happy until AC is long gone and both you and I know that will never happen.
So whilst our new CEO might well make all the right noises, its really a question of just how much he will be able to achieve with one hand tied behind his back.
The interview on Radio Sheffield was with their reporter so I don't think it was the same as the one that's on Spirites Digital. In the interview he was also asked about his time at Leeds United (I didn't know he was there when they had the Italian owner) which seemed to get him more than a little unsettled. Our very own Mr Bean has certainly been around a bit.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Devongone - 20-12-2018
If the fans haven't the weaponry, organisation, and sufficient burning desire to trouble Mr Allen and Mr Carson ......... and I strongly suspect they haven't ......... someone has to give a little if the club is EVER to move forward. I don't know much about Mr Bean's background, but it is vanishingly rare to see a CEO manning the picket lines or even providing refreshments.
The unlikely best we can hope for is that he can remain his own man, whilst being slightly distrusted by both sides. He's been a copper he'll understand that.
I think this may be one of those cases in which a good man has to step forward, swallow hard and offer his hand to someone who he knows might well shit on it. Otherwise all I can see is two sides digging ever-deeper trenches.
I can't see anyone other than Mr Bean being in a position to initiate this process and who good man/men amongst the fans would be I've no idea.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Devongone - 20-12-2018
I liked SGB's analysis a lot, but surely Sir Alex retired knowing his tired MU team needed a complete re-build AND determined that his successor would gild HIS legend by failing completely. Why else anoint Moyes who had never won anything at Everton? Sir Alex is a very shrewd, if not very likeable man, I reckon this was one rabbit he pulled out of the hat, because he knew it would freeze in the headlights. He always knew how close he'd come to failure himself. He knew the size of the re-building task he would face at an age when most men are opting for their slippers not their trainers. Failing would destroy his hard-won reputation, so he let David Moyes soil his CV instead.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - SaltergateBorn - 20-12-2018
I disagree with you entirely on that one, Dev; i don`t think for a minute that his motives were as machiavellian as that.
RE: In the strange algebra of football does ma=jm? - Devongone - 21-12-2018
What, Sir Alex not machiavellian? Sir Alex? If he hadn't been a bit of a centre forward, he'd have been Labour Party leader and had Tony Blair locked away with the princes in the tower. (He's up there with Putin and now he's re-born after his stroke he could be the key to MU overtaking their rivals once more.)
A very clever man.