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+----- Thread: Goodnight Vienna (/showthread.php?tid=6328)
Goodnight Vienna - spireitematt - 13-02-2018
Well I think that's it. Cambridge was a must win game and it's very difficult to see how we are going to stay up now, need a miracle or several.
What next? Conference? or start again?
RE: Goodnight Vienna - bluepooch - 14-02-2018
It feels like relegation season .They get a penalty which the linesman didnt give .We score in the 93rd minute only for it to be disallowed for an apparent handball and they go up the field and score the winner.
Having said that we didnt deserve to win ,again for the third home game in a row we lost by a fine margin after a close game .Yes I'm afraid these things happen when its a relegation season ,Ive witnessed it twice in the last 7 years and I'm getting that same feeling again.Its almost like an acceptance that it is going to turn out badly no matter what we do .An inevitability if you like .
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Dancingwilldoit - 14-02-2018
We asked for everything we got. At times we were playing with an 8-1-1 formation which just gave them the run of midfield and invited them on. Once again we didn't push or pressure them on the ball and just sat back waiting for them to attack wave after wave after wave.
We started 4-4-2 and actually seemed to be up for it for 30 mins we did challenge and push but then it just went pair shaped. The boo's ringing out at the end were well deserved. If that's the best team JL could come up with then god help us. Dennis and COG up front is a partnership that just doesn't work. For once COG lasted 90mins and didn't have a bad game but the Titanic could execute a tighter turn than he can. Those 2 together just don't work IMO so when I saw the team a cold shiver went down my back.
The new players have had plenty of time to gel both on and off the field but in play they look like strangers and our passing was abysmal. What really peed me off was that Cambridge played like the home team, passing it about and pressurising us for all they were worth.
Next years fixtures will give us some nice coastal away days, Fylde, Dover, Eastleigh, Torquay (if they stay up) and Barrow. I take no delight in saying some of us were right last season forecasting a double drop but we were. Its all just such a shame.
I didn't post last night because I was so peed off I would probably been done for slander. I have calmed down now and am in a peaceful mellow place. Looking forward to next season with most of the same squad of players - we should tear the league apart. Those tablets really have done me the world of good, you should try them Blue.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Devongone - 14-02-2018
I'm not trying to make a case for CO'G when I say I think Dennis might be the problem in forming a partnership. Some players just play their game their way no matter what, and I think he may be one.
The truth is I think we possibly needed a second goalscorer so he and Dennis could play together as and when, like any two other positions on the pitch ......... rather than playing as twin strikers or partners - just two strikers playing their own game. Without that second source of goals I don't think there are enough goals in the rest of the team or enough of a threat - we just can't afford a non-scoring forward. Once you think the opposition can't hurt you, it is easy to dominate.
My other thought is Pooch's piece on Jack's interest in psychology. That's essentially a good thing, but knowing about it and getting the players fully on board aren't always the same thing. Wasn't it Richo who had a degree in psychology? That didn't quite come over to the players did it? The trouble is in making the players aware of the benefits of being fully in the moment, you cannot help also alerting them to their shortcomings. If you remain as fully focused in the last minute as the first I can see the benefits of that, but if you become too aware of the dangers, for instance of conceding in the last minute, you become more likely to fall prey to it ......... because you start looking for a safety first option you'd never usually choose ....... and end up being less not more safe. Spend the week warning people not to concede a last minute goal and you'll see them doing all kinds of weird things at the end of a game AND conceding.
People don't always learn the lesson you think you are teaching ..........
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Dancingwilldoit - 14-02-2018
Dev, FYI Albert Holmes was introduced at the start of the game and presented the match ball. I thought it might have been a god omen but hey ho.
Think you are correct re Dennis but that doesn't make up for COG being so poor as a partner, they didn't have a bloody clue where each other were and the passing was shocking. IMO neither should be first choice. 4-4-2 looked ok for the first 30mins but when the wheels came off the bus we went flat. Watching a 4 man midfield give the opposition 2/3rds of the pitch then just backing off is not my idea of defending. We gave them time to stroke the ball all over the place with nice build up play. Their first was another keeper howler and the second was stupidity by Weir. Other than that our defence held out well (probably because there was 8 of them) problem was then when we / if we won the ball it was a big boot upfield to nobody and back it came.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - bluepooch - 14-02-2018
I thought Denno was our best player by a mile,so much for those who said his head wouldn't be right after the Bradford debacle he was the only bit of quality we had.The jury is definitely out on the majority of Jack's January recruitments.
As for COG he has just followed in the footsteps of SEB ,Angel ,Liddle and the others we have signed on big wages who are clearly on the decline .(Add Lionel Richie to that ).I know he has plied his trade at a higher level but I cannot believe the player we have is that same player ,he doesn't hold the ball up well, his first touch is hit and miss, his distribution leaves something to be desired and he cannot score for toffee.Apart from that he's ok.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Dancingwilldoit - 14-02-2018
Just read JL's thoughts on the game. He thought it was a good performance and he had selected an attacking line up. Think he should come and sit in the East Stand and listen to some of the comments around me.
If anybody with Jacks ear is reading this, please tell him it was crap team selection, crap tactics and the fact we were totally utterly crap that lost us the game. That's why boo's were ringing out at the end not because we played well and it was an attacking performance. This is his team now so no excuses.
I'd risk JL's ire by telling him how it is face to face as I could give him some ire back myself. I don't care if he is a town legend, if he doesn't wake up to reality and very quickly, he will be out of a job.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Devongone - 14-02-2018
I think you being eight inches or more taller than Jack might make confronting him less scary, Dancing ........
I'm glad Jack espouses strong views, even when I'm sure he's getting it wrong. I'm less convinced when he seems to bow to pressure and tries different ways of playing. His actions seem less certain than his words.
This is the point at which a properly organised, capable club would be calling Jack in for a chat and telling him and meaning it, that he'll be manager next season, that he will be expected to plan for either relegation, or salvation, that he will have a budget to get us back up, or whatever, that our eventual aim is Division One at least .............. That sort of stuff. Unfortunately a club capable of formulating those thoughts, planning and implementing those plans, raising finance and spending it and COMMUNICATING both internally and externally almost certainly wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
I expected Jack to make mistakes. I always thought his job was next to impossible. I'd like to think he's human enough to sympathise with fans' disquiet, even anger. One of his problems is he has spent his entire adult life as a pro', that educates people into a very blinkered way of thinking and very limited, conservative solutions, especially when the going gets tough. Jack is almost bound to return to known patterns and one of those is that CO'G will make space and opportunities for KD - but it doesn't happen, so his default setting is KD on his own. Ricky German keeps soiling the carpet somehow, Zavon Hines is in the book as a disappointment, Gozie isn't there yet. Young Dylan didn't grab his chance. Amantchi and Rawson are too young to be in the book yet ...... He's got a kid from Barnsley, but Tommy's recommendations have been fairly pants. So Jack's stuck with conservative solutions that won't work the oracle and being human he sometimes sees what he's hoping to see. If he's looking to attack, then it's no surprise our attacks loom largest in his memory.
My hope is that someone has the guts to get Jack to look again at players he has cast as discards. If tinkering with the mechanism doesn't work, maybe he needs to go for a more radical re-build. It seems the same both ends of the pitch problem we've had since early last season - we have to look as though we are likely to score AND as though we could also prevent the opposition scoring. It's simple. We never manage both and rarely achieve either. So teams beat us because they think they can.
As for Albert Holmes, if he's still walking and talking independently, Jack should have brought him in for a chat with all the defenders in the club. If he could have communicated any of his desire to win the ball when things looked desperate, his solidity and commitment, his sheer professionalism, the way he trotted out looking twice as fit and quick as any butcher's dog ......... he didn't need to try to make an impression on his winger, it was just inevitable ...... oh Albert, if only.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Dancingwilldoit - 14-02-2018
He looked very fit Dev. Maybe he should have played.
Problem with your post is that its not us pulling the strings. If he learns from his mistakes and we see more passion and a bit more skill in the next few games then I for 1 would give him a pat on the back and support him next year.
We have both said that we should have kept DW on. It might not have been pretty but IMO he would have kept us in Lge 1. It wouldn't surprise me if they gave Jack the push before the end of the season and brought in another no hoper or give it Tommy Wright. Whatever their agenda, its ruining our club.
RE: Goodnight Vienna - Devongone - 15-02-2018
The agenda of those running the club is inscrutable. I'm not even sure there is an agenda - it might be random-select day to day.
If avoiding relegation were our priority we'd have been bringing in players early in the transfer window, not minimising our outlay until its dying few minutes. Forest Green recruited early and have won their last four home games. We had a choice between cheap and salvation. We chose cheap.
The trouble with managers is if you choose a learner you have to let him learn and back him, if you choose an old hand he might have run all his races and be on the way down himself, whatever you do. If you can't afford a manager who is currently successful, then there is an element of rolling the dice even for a well-run club. And we aren't.
One of my top proposals would be to get rid of Tommy Wright .......... but hey ho.
Only the high regard in which he is held by the fans is likely to save Jack Lester. Luckily that regard is more recent than it was for Danny Wilson, who in my opinion made a much bigger impact on the pitch for the club than a nice player like Jack. Nobody combined skill and on-field commitment during my lifetime more than Danny. Dear Albert Holmes had both the skill and the attitude. Good to hear he still radiates fitness. Wingers had to catch a bus to get round Albert's thigh muscles.
I hope Jack stays, is backed to stay and is allowed to plan get us back into the league. He'd be a hero forever. Giving him a shop-soiled, impossible job wasn't much of a reward for the regard in which he was held. Sacking him from that impossible job would be a disgrace. But football's never been beyond amazing disgrace.