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+----- Thread: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose (/showthread.php?tid=441)
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Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - Terrier1987cas - 29-09-2014
Having seen Mitzi's post on the Millwall thread where she states she'd happily see us play boring football if it meant we won the game, I wondered what other peoples opinions were on this subject. My opinion has always and will always be that I want to be entertained first and foremost and the result comes secondary to that - I pay upwards of £1,000 every season when all costs are totalled, and I don't spend it to watch the ball get launched into the sky or for forwards to be left completely isolated with nobody around them. This is why I don't like one bit of what I've seen from Chris Powell so far, why I fell out of love so drastically with Lee Clark after Old Trafford, and why I stood by Mark Robins for so long (his intention was always to have us playing football). Every now and then it's nice to win ugly, but if it's a consistent thing I'm not interested and my support will wane - for example if Chris Powell keeps us playing this turgid style he's started with me renewing my season card will become highly unlikely.
There's no right or wrong here by the way, it's all about opinions and Mitzi is well within her rights to want to win at all costs (I think the majority will agree with here TBH), I just wanted to know if there was anyone else out there like me who would rather be entertained and have a team to be proud of.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - Marco4 - 29-09-2014
Ah, the old Bilardo v. Menotti debate. Sign me up for the dreamers; give me Zemanlandia over the turgid dross Ventura is spewing out at the Olimpico this year.
The quotes from El Flaco in this Jonathan Wilson piece sum it up perfectly.
Play to win, by all means, but play.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - WakeyTerrier - 29-09-2014
Result first, entertainment second.
Having said that the first half on Saturday was dire, I saw nothing that would encourage any new supporters attending the game that would make them want to come back.
We were ultra defensive against a poor Millwall team, apparently we played 352 but with Peltier,Hudson,Lynch,Smith,Robinson,Coady and Hogg in the team it was like 7 at the back at times, very little in the way of attacking movement other than try and hoof it over top for Wells to run onto..except we tried that tactic too far up the pitch meaning he had little or no space to run into, absolutely no spark on the wings, at least when Hammill,Ward or Scanz play it occasionly looks like we have someone who can create a chance
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - Amelia Chaffinch - 29-09-2014
I admired Mark Robins for sticking with his plan and would have been good to succeed. However his fastidiousness meant we were predictable and easy to read. He should have been adaptable. I don't want to see the ball in the air but seeing more wins than losses is more important to me than pretty. I have to have the feel good factor of wins to make me want to go. And I think a lot of people are the same. Deano has got our money but if he wants more bums in seats which he does, they will have to throw us a bone and I think that's wins any which way.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - ARTERRIER - 29-09-2014
Where as we passed it about under Robins at no point was it ever effective or entertaining to watch. For me you need a bit of both, I like to be entertained but how times do we play well and get mugged? Sometimes you need to dig in and win ugly. Neil Adams said this the other day about his teams performance at Blackpool, 'sometimes you got to win ugly' he said.
Think Powell needs to show a bit more ambition and getting us playing a bit more attacking and entertaining, maybe this will come when you he moves us up the league little.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - theo_luddite - 29-09-2014
Job 1 - survival.
Job 2 - stop leaking goals for fun and make sure at least 3 teams have less points and a worse goal difference than us.
Job 3 - play the fancy stuff when we are a bit further up the table than we are now.
It's not the dire stuff we saw in League 1 but I've seen games that were easier on the eye. Would prefer we play more like Arsenal than Millwall but get some points on the board this side of Christmas first. Seemed to have a few more round pegs in round holes on Saturday and Hogg had one of his better displays for a while.
Neither Town or Millwall tried to play with any pace in the first half but with what seemed about 20 players all within touching distance of each other that wasn't going to happen. Once Hollowmouth changed his tactics it opened up a bit more room for us and we were far more effective. More so with the subs after we went in front. Although we played 3-5-2, (or 7-1-2 as suggested above) which Robins couldn't get to work consistently with too many round pegs in square holes, we were more organised in defence (other than when they hit the bar and later scored) and looked more of a threat going forward throughout the second half than we did in the whole game against Bournemouth. Didn't see the Middlesbro or Wigan games.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - Mitzi - 29-09-2014
I didn't say "win at all costs" although I see why you would think that. My view is a consistent one I have expressed right back to the original BBC 606. It's "safety first, THEN concentrate on providing attractive football". If we were in the top half of the table then I wouldn't want to see a boring defensive performance. But when we're in the relegation zone then I'll happily settle for that if it means points on the board.
Edit: Just read Theo's post above mine - yes, that 1 2 3 is exactly what I mean; he's encapsulated it better.
In my experience, the ones who claim to want attractive attacking football at all costs are the first to moan when we lose match after match because the defenders are all way up the pitch.
Oh and I would hate to follow a team of dirty cheating diving/violent/whatever players, so really my view is very far from "at all costs". I'm thinking of something like Dickov's Oldham team, when we used to play them - I would come away from the games thinking, how can those fans go there week after week to watch that? I'd hate us to be like that. But to play defensively, when we've been conceding 3+ goals a game for most of the season so far - yes, I'll settle for that.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - St Charles Owl - 29-09-2014
This is one of those age old debates in football!! I still think at the end of the day a vast majority of fans want their team to win and yes most want to see their team playing good, attacking football in the process but the win is the important thing. Generally though, most teams who win tend to play attacking football, so to so degree the two will come hand in hand!!
I also agree with Mitzi in terms of you build from a good defence first and foremost, stop the goals going in your net and the whole team can play with more confidence. This can be seen possibly most starkly with the strikers, a solid defence means the pressure is off the strikers to put every chance away because they know they really only have to take one of them for the team to stand a good chance of winning.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - ritchiebaby - 29-09-2014
I'd add that getting a few wins under our belt will breed a bit of confidence throughout the whole team. That, allied to being solid defensively, lets the attacking players play with more freedom and less pressure. Points first, plaudits later.
RE: Play ugly & win vs Play football & lose - Lord Snooty - 29-09-2014
Yes we were hoofing it on Saturday, but actually they were quite effective hoofs. They were accurate and the number of balls we won against their giants was remarkable. The first goal came from one of said hoofs. A long, accurate pass (hoof) from Lynch to Bunn, which he controlled well and laid it off for Nakki.
As for the question. Results first, entertainment second.