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+----- Thread: Berahino (/showthread.php?tid=3041)
Berahino - wba_1996 - 16-08-2015
Haven't started a thread in a while but after a bit of thought and reading what some fans have said on other forums I feel this is something worth discussing. Up until this morning I have been 100% against selling Saido under any circumstances, however, after the way we have played in the first two matches and looking at our squad I feel that we just can't play 442 at this level. Lets look at the teams in the league:
Teams who play 4231: Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Palace, Norwich, Swansea, Man United, Newcastle, Villa, Watford, Tottenham, Stoke, Everton, Southampton, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Leicester, West Ham
Teams who play 442: West Brom
Sunderland played 4231 against Leicester and switched to 442 against Norwich
Most matches in this league are won in the midfield, therefore if we play 442 we are going to be outnumbered in every single game, bar potentially Sunderland. This means we are going to have another 36 games like the first two, with about 35% possession and being forced to play a narrow midfield made up of mainly central midfielders to make sure that we don't leave any gaps which will get exploited.
Therefore I'm coming round to the opinion that we should take the most money we can get for Saido (£25m+) and play the formation that actually suits the squad we have and the league we play in. Use the Saido money to get in a quality winger and a quality central attacking playmaker. We already have three targetman strikers we can play as the lone frontman (Rondon, Lambert, Anichebe). Personally if we do sell Saido, I would like to see:
New GK
Dawson - Chester - Lescott - New LB
Fletcher - Yacob
Gnabry - New AM - New LW
Rondon
Dawson - Chester - Lescott - New LB
Fletcher - Yacob
Gnabry - New AM - New LW
Rondon
As I say, only my opinion and up until today I would have preferred to keep Saido, but I really don't think we can play 442 in this league, and Saido would be wasted on the wing as goalscoring is his main strength.
RE: Berahino - WBA-Josh - 16-08-2015
To add to your point, Rondon and Lambert have both been at their best in recent years playing in the 4-2-3-1 formation. Lambert with Southampton and Rondon with Malaga, Rubin Kazan and Zenit. 4-4-2 still has its pros and can be used successfully (Atletico Madrid winning La Liga and Real Madrid winning the Champions League in recent years) but generally the dynamic of football at the highest levels has changed with most teams now using a triangle in the centre of midfield (1 holder and 2 central midfielders or 2 holders/central midfielders and 1 attacking midfielder).
I know that you don't think we can sign Praet but I really hope that we can by really selling the club and its ideals to him. Praet and Rondon could work very well together. I would actually try to keep Berahino and then use him at left midfield because the system can become fluid with Berahino, Praet and Gnabry changing their positions during the match.
Yacob-Fletcher
Gnabry-Praet-Berahino
Rondon
RE: Berahino - wba_1996 - 16-08-2015
(16-08-2015, 19:00)WBA-Josh Wrote: To add to your point, Rondon and Lambert have both been at their best in recent years playing in the 4-2-3-1 formation. Lambert with Southampton and Rondon with Malaga, Rubin Kazan and Zenit. 4-4-2 still has its pros and can be used successfully (Atletico Madrid winning La Liga and Real Madrid winning the Champions League in recent years) but generally the dynamic of football at the highest levels has changed with most teams now using a triangle in the centre of midfield (1 holder and 2 central midfielders or 2 holders/central midfielders and 1 attacking midfielder).
I know that you don't think we can sign Praet but I really hope that we can by really selling the club and its ideals to him. Praet and Rondon could work very well together. I would actually try to keep Berahino and then use him at left midfield because the system can become fluid with Berahino, Praet and Gnabry changing their positions during the match.
Yacob-FletcherGnabry-Praet-BerahinoRondon
Good post, Josh. That midfield and strikeforce would be the stuff dreams are made of. Sadly, you are right I can't see Praet coming in, nor Pulis playing 4231 and I'd also be surprised if Gnabry gets the nod over Gardner based on the selections so far.
For me, Yacob and Fletcher can only be played together as the holding midfielders in a 4231 like you have posted, both are too immobile to play in a 442.
RE: Berahino - WBA-Josh - 16-08-2015
If memory serves me right, I think Tony actually used a 4-2-3-1 formation in his last season with Stoke and in our first pre-season match so maybe he has it as an option in his ideals. I could be wrong though.
If we can't sign Praet then I still think Morrison has a lot to offer us in an attacking midfield position. He was at his best under RDM and Clarke playing in that role and his energy mixed with the youthfulness and skill of Gnabry and the goal scoring attributes of Berahino and Rondon could make a fruity cocktail. Don't forget Sessegnon either because his best performances for the club have been in that role.
All in all changing our 4-4-2 to either a 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1 is something that needs to be done in my opinion.
RE: Berahino - drewks - 16-08-2015
Exactly
RE: Berahino - betterthanbaird - 16-08-2015
I thought we played 4-2-3-1 at times under Pulis last season. Berahino played quite deep in an attacking midfielder role sometimes.
RE: Berahino - WillieJohnstonsGreenhouse - 16-08-2015
Just a quick question.
If you had a strike force of Lambert and Rondon and were offered Berahino in exchange would you take it?
(I don't want to lose Bera - even though he couldn't head an earth-sized asteroid that hit earth - he's by far our best player)
RE: Berahino - Stairs - 16-08-2015
I think he is over valued at £25m but if Spuds want to pay it I think we should grab it and invest elsewhere
RE: Berahino - Slick_Footwork - 16-08-2015
My opinion is pretty much in agreement with you. I was dead against the Saido sale, but given the selection in the first 2 games and TP's seeming reluctance to move away from 4-4-2, I feel our overall performance might be improve if Saido goes and the money is reinvested in some decent midfield players.
That said, I can see TP wasting that any incoming cash on dross like Jonny Evans, who a United season ticket holder at work described as someone he would "drive to West Brom himself", millions on a keeper, more dross like McLean or someone unproven like Grey, despite the fact we're crying out for players who are definite improvements on what we have.
In short, I don't trust TP with the transfer budget based on what I've seen so far and think we could lose one of the best strikers in the league, capable of scoring bucket loads with any decent service and replace him with millions of pounds worth of dross.
The only thing we can hope is that if he goes to Spurs that Townsend is part of the deal. At least he's a player who is proven at this level and can beat people. But very much doubt he'd want to come and I think Saido will go to City or United anyway. Then we'll just be left with a big pot of cash for TP to wilter away...
Ideally I'd still like to see us revert to 4-5-1 and keep Saido, playing him on the left side of the 5 (or 3 strikers) in a similar role to what Ayew plays for Swansea. Sessegnon or Mozza could play off the top and we could recruit someone new for the right hand side. But obviously this isn't going to happen when McLean and Gardner have been preferred to Sess and Lambert and Rondon have both been bought for big money and I doubt that is for either of them to sit on the bench...
RE: Berahino - BaggyBomber - 16-08-2015
(16-08-2015, 21:48)Stairs Wrote: I think he is over valued at £25m but if Spuds want to pay it I think we should grab it and invest elsewhere
Agreed, Stairs. Total over-valuation. If Spurs are saft enough to pay that amount, I'd snatch their hand off.
I would much rather see Lambert and Rondon playing. Given the right service, i.e. wing play, I think they could be pretty productive and exciting.