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+----- Thread: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! (/showthread.php?tid=10357)
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RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - St Charles Owl - 21-04-2021
(21-04-2021, 00:17)spireitematt Wrote:(20-04-2021, 21:11)St Charles Owl Wrote: The tv revenue has been brilliant for the PL, the problem is the affect it has had on the rest of the pyramid.
It has but we need to remember football isn't a TV show it's a sport. With all the money a wash in the Premier League you would think that clubs would lower ticket prices for fans and make it more affordable. The money that teams in the Premier League now get from gate receipts is only a small percent when you compare it to sponsorship and TV deals. As for the rest of the pyramid they get the crumbs off the table of the Premier League with this trickle down effect which doesn't work.
A lot of these owners and people who run the game don't understand the game, they see things through numbers on spreadsheets and graphs. Fans need to have more of a say in how the game is run and how clubs are run because football belongs to everybody not just the selected few.
I agree but to many sport is a tv show, either they cannot get to games, cannot afford it or just don't have a passion for it like we do, but they do contribute to it in their own way. Armchair fans are only a problem if they would normally be going to games and since the PL came about attendances are higher across the leagues. Like you say the issue here isn't the money, its the distribution of the money and the trickle down that needs to happen. I think we would all like to have owners who not only know football but are lifelong fans of the clubs, but in reality what we need are owners who are going to run the club with responsibility.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - spireitematt - 21-04-2021
(21-04-2021, 00:32)St Charles Owl Wrote:(21-04-2021, 00:17)spireitematt Wrote:(20-04-2021, 21:11)St Charles Owl Wrote: The tv revenue has been brilliant for the PL, the problem is the affect it has had on the rest of the pyramid.
It has but we need to remember football isn't a TV show it's a sport. With all the money a wash in the Premier League you would think that clubs would lower ticket prices for fans and make it more affordable. The money that teams in the Premier League now get from gate receipts is only a small percent when you compare it to sponsorship and TV deals. As for the rest of the pyramid they get the crumbs off the table of the Premier League with this trickle down effect which doesn't work.
A lot of these owners and people who run the game don't understand the game, they see things through numbers on spreadsheets and graphs. Fans need to have more of a say in how the game is run and how clubs are run because football belongs to everybody not just the selected few.
I agree but to many sport is a tv show, either they cannot get to games, cannot afford it or just don't have a passion for it like we do, but they do contribute to it in their own way. Armchair fans are only a problem if they would normally be going to games and since the PL came about attendances are higher across the leagues. Like you say the issue here isn't the money, its the distribution of the money and the trickle down that needs to happen. I think we would all like to have owners who not only know football but are lifelong fans of the clubs, but in reality what we need are owners who are going to run the club with responsibility.
Which is why fans should be allowed a say with fan ownership or something similar to the 50+1 rule like they have in Germany.
What really irks me about all this is American millionaire and billionaires coming over to England and buying clubs and then telling us how we should do football. Just who the hell do these people think they are? The current system we have with the pyramid and promotion and relegation works, it might not be perfect but it works. We don't want a league or a system like the NBA, NFL, NHL etc where it's closed off and if you finish bottom of the league then you are in that league next year. We like to see the underdog beat the giants.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - Devongone - 21-04-2021
The ease with which the house of cards has tumbled down makes me wonder what the aim of this project really was.
Money really isn't the problem. The proliferation of media and all those obscure metals they're digging up in China and Africa, that's where we need to look. It isn't particularly football, it could just as well be competitive cup-cake baking. Anything and everything becomes a media project. We have to find a narrative, we have to make it news, we have to discuss how it works and how it might change, we have to view it on the smallest and most ridiculous device imaginable, invent a range of pointless statistics and find a way for people to gamble on increasingly arcane and impenetrable features (how many eggy-wegs in the cup-cake mix, who'll drop a spoon, or fail to switch on the oven).
And we lap it up with ever-increasing nodding-dogginess, and by casting ourselves as idiots, we get the treatment we deserve. Let's give Mr Henry and Mr Lewis all our money. Hey look at Mr Henry's beautiful wifelet, wow he doesn't look that attractive himself does he? Do you mean from inside or outside his trouser pockets?
There just aren't enough Neymars and Mbappes to go round are there? Oh look at that through ball from de Bruyne, he's put Matt Rhead from Boreham Wood through on goal. And who the fcku wants to see Matt Rhead blaze it over, or catch his studs in the turf? We need a sultry Colombian with a few tight curls and control as reliable as his eyelashes. We need to see all the good teams against each other all the time, so we can be disappointed by how quickly they learn to cancel out each other's skills ........... and then we can demand more and better and richer, ever-richer so we can throw wads of cash at young men barely out of school and pontificate on how they need to grow up if they can't handle the pressure. Anybody can stick that penalty away, anybody could catch that cross, after all only 2 billion people are watching.
We get this pap, because it's what we want and deserve. What a delightful two days the ESL was! It measured out in plastic teaspoons exactly how much love the club you've followed all your life and upon which you've lavished time, money and yes fanatical love, has for you. You can bring your own spoons, you won't need many.
If you happen to be a Kroenke, a Henry, or a Lewis, at least it's a brief glimpse of how limited the view is from so far up your own arse.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - spireitematt - 21-04-2021
It's not over though. They'll go back into their box until the next time they come up with some other scheme.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - Devongone - 22-04-2021
I hope they, or someone else, does come up with another scheme. As you wisely remarked Matt there are no good guys in this drama. You'd worry about a second-hand car if you got it from FIFA or UEFA, if you got it from the FA you'd be slightly concerned that the mechanic checking it over was on day-release from an old folk's home, and if you'd used the Premier League the mileage would be way out and there be a funny smell of drugs from the boot.
The Champions League is currently ridiculous - you don't need to be champions of anything to be in it and the Europa is so etiolated it spreads itself meaninglessly across the season like cheap marg' on a slice of Kingsmill. The two competitions wind like intarsia through an impenetrable series of international matches and competitions between countries to whom the games mean little to even their most enthusiastic fans. They exist to serve the vanity of the organising bodies.
Interestingly in the world outside football the rich men in charge can be swayed into chic minimalism. They don't expect their trophy wives to be shopping in the modern equivalent of Woolworths. They're getting personal service, one-offs, originals presented to them on a silver tray, untouched by any human hand other than that of the craftsman involved. Yet they come to football with a philosophy that more is more. More money, more wages, more games, more sackings, more attention, more heaped upon more in such a wriggling mass of excess that only occasionally do we get to glimpse the outstanding.
If you aren't champions of anything, have never ever been champions of Europe and are halfway way up the English league, you shouldn't even be waiting outside the door that says SUPER. SIMPLES!
For a start let's have champions competing against champions, so that we have a team we can revere as Champions of Europe - hey we could even call it that.
And then maybe two clubs from every European country could be invited to compete in the Eurosilver Trophy. One the Cup winner, the other league runner up maybe. Early round/rounds would be confined to countries whose leagues are lower-ranked, then when you get down to maybe 64 you have a straight knockout tournament, with an exciting draw between rounds.
Maybe as a side line we could run a kinda Euroitsaknockout, in which rich owners of football clubs and Chief Execs can demonstrate a range of sporting skills in an assortment of embarrassing costumes.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - spireitematt - 22-04-2021
I was right this has not gone away. Talk of a British Super League with Celtic and Rangers joining the Premier League. Then you have Perez who has said the Super League is on hold.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - Devongone - 22-04-2021
I think Perez himself is pretty much on hold, a rather discredited figure.
As for the Premier League, it seems to have killed off the move to 18 clubs.
The Celtic and Rangers thing is pissing into the current high wind, so it disappears from the agenda for a generation. How likely is it that Scotland's two leading clubs will join up with England at a time when their entire country's major aim is to break away?
Why would they want to battle it out with Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton just above the relegation zone, because that's the reality of it. Put together currently they wouldn't challenge for the top six places and their hopes of European competition would only slightly exceed Chesterfield's. Long-term they'd be great additions and I'm sure they'd make themselves successful ........................................................................... e v e n t u a l l y.......
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - Dancingwilldoit - 22-04-2021
Perez makes a good point that all the teams signed a binding contract. This is going to get very interesting.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - spireitematt - 22-04-2021
(22-04-2021, 21:13)Dancingwilldoit Wrote: Perez makes a good point that all the teams signed a binding contract. This is going to get very interesting.
But isn't there a 14 day cooling off period? The 6 clubs wouldn't be stupid to sign a contract without a get out clause would they?
I agree Dancing this is going to get very very interesting and it isn't going away anytime soon.
RE: SUPER TWELVE? YES, SUICIDE IS PAINLESS! - SaltergateBorn - 25-04-2021
I`m inclined to agree that it`s not over yet by a long way. The motives behind it – a combination of financial desperation and greed – are still there; as John Barnes says, all that`s been done so far is to revert to the status quo. Where we go from here very much depends, I think, on our Government; they`re the ones with their hands on the really big levers and it all depends on which ones they decide to pull.
As I see it, all this guff about `fan power` is way wide of the mark. People like the Glazers, the Kroenkes, the Henrys etc don`t give a flying f~’k about the opinions of football supporters until and unless they start to impact on their own bottom line (which is, of course, the value of their own assets) and the amount of broadcasting money pouring into the game makes the take through the turnstiles less and less important every day. I don`t think the fans` protests made any difference; I think it was BoJo`s threat to drop a `legislative bomb` on them that stopped them in their tracks.
Unfortunately he`s a politician and all politicians tend to talk better than they walk, so it remains to be seen whether there`s any substance to it.
If not, I have this funny feeling that we`ll be facing this situation – or one very similar – again very soon.