(16-12-2020, 08:56)BaggieSteve Wrote:

(16-12-2020, 01:37)wba13 Wrote: Sorry cannot agree with the above statement I support WEST BROMWICH ALBION not the manager. I will always be behind whoever comes in . But I know we will like some better than others. I don’t want Alladyce but if it’s him so be it . He will get my support.

I take your point and I also support the club, not the manager. In those 58 years, I’ve seen some unbelievably dumb decisions but I’ve continued to support and I know I’ll do the same in the future. It does not, however, lessen my feelings of anger and frustration; does this club never learn? From Pulis in 2017 to now, we have had five managers in three years,  including Jimmy Shan. A complete lack of continuity and consistency; change managers that often and what do you expect. I certainly don’t want us to be relegated but, as someone who loathes the Premier League, neither do I fear it. We are a club who has, and will continue, to move between the PL and the Championship unless we are taken over by a sovereign wealth fund or oligarch- and there are many other clubs similar to us. However, if we want to progress, then I believe we need to start developing a longer term plan beyond the short term thinking of “if we get relegated, it’s a disaster”. Included in that plan would be an ambitious, forward looking and young(ish) manager who we invest in and stick by for once, even when the going gets tough, as it always does at some point. Do Allardyce, Hughes or Pearson tick any of those boxes? Absolutely not.
I fully appreciate there are others on the board who would welcome Allardyce and that’s fine; it’s just that I’m not one of them. Bilic has made mistakes, I fully acknowledge that and I’ve also ranted about some of his selections but I just want us to stop this hire and fire approach which has not worked.

(16-12-2020, 08:56)BaggieSteve Wrote:

(16-12-2020, 01:37)wba13 Wrote: Sorry cannot agree with the above statement I support WEST BROMWICH ALBION not the manager. I will always be behind whoever comes in . But I know we will like some better than others. I don’t want Alladyce but if it’s him so be it . He will get my support.

I take your point and I also support the club, not the manager. In those 58 years, I’ve seen some unbelievably dumb decisions but I’ve continued to support and I know I’ll do the same in the future. It does not, however, lessen my feelings of anger and frustration; does this club never learn? From Pulis in 2017 to now, we have had five managers in three years,  including Jimmy Shan. A complete lack of continuity and consistency; change managers that often and what do you expect. I certainly don’t want us to be relegated but, as someone who loathes the Premier League, neither do I fear it. We are a club who has, and will continue, to move between the PL and the Championship unless we are taken over by a sovereign wealth fund or oligarch- and there are many other clubs similar to us. However, if we want to progress, then I believe we need to start developing a longer term plan beyond the short term thinking of “if we get relegated, it’s a disaster”. Included in that plan would be an ambitious, forward looking and young(ish) manager who we invest in and stick by for once, even when the going gets tough, as it always does at some point. Do Allardyce, Hughes or Pearson tick any of those boxes? Absolutely not.
I fully appreciate there are others on the board who would welcome Allardyce and that’s fine; it’s just that I’m not one of them. Bilic has made mistakes, I fully acknowledge that and I’ve also ranted about some of his selections but I just want us to stop this hire and fire approach which has not worked.

(16-12-2020, 15:10)Slick_Footwork Wrote:

(16-12-2020, 08:56)BaggieSteve Wrote:

(16-12-2020, 01:37)wba13 Wrote: Sorry cannot agree with the above statement I support WEST BROMWICH ALBION not the manager. I will always be behind whoever comes in . But I know we will like some better than others. I don’t want Alladyce but if it’s him so be it . He will get my support.

I take your point and I also support the club, not the manager. In those 58 years, I’ve seen some unbelievably dumb decisions but I’ve continued to support and I know I’ll do the same in the future. It does not, however, lessen my feelings of anger and frustration; does this club never learn? From Pulis in 2017 to now, we have had five managers in three years,  including Jimmy Shan. A complete lack of continuity and consistency; change managers that often and what do you expect. I certainly don’t want us to be relegated but, as someone who loathes the Premier League, neither do I fear it. We are a club who has, and will continue, to move between the PL and the Championship unless we are taken over by a sovereign wealth fund or oligarch- and there are many other clubs similar to us. However, if we want to progress, then I believe we need to start developing a longer term plan beyond the short term thinking of “if we get relegated, it’s a disaster”. Included in that plan would be an ambitious, forward looking and young(ish) manager who we invest in and stick by for once, even when the going gets tough, as it always does at some point. Do Allardyce, Hughes or Pearson tick any of those boxes? Absolutely not.
I fully appreciate there are others on the board who would welcome Allardyce and that’s fine; it’s just that I’m not one of them. Bilic has made mistakes, I fully acknowledge that and I’ve also ranted about some of his selections but I just want us to stop this hire and fire approach which has not worked.

My belief is that it was a good decision to appoint Pulis at the time. We were in the doldrums with a crap squad, so we needed someone who can get the best out of a limited set of players. He did that and added some steel by signing Darren Fletcher in January and took us from relegation fodder to mid table. The bad decision was to make it a long term appointment, giving him money and complete control of the club.

And while I never liked Pulis or his philosophies, I do remember one game in particular in his first season because we watched it from a bar in Cyprus, during my mate's stag. It was against Mourinho's Chelsea side at home and we won 3-0. I remember at the time, the impact Pulis made in that season was incredible. He turned a team who couldn't buy a win into a side that gave everyone a game. Chelsea won the title that year, only losing 3 times. Beating them was a coup.

That season shows the impact a short term appointment can make...

And while we all pretty much dislike Pulis now, a balanced view is that he did a good job at first. Had he been only a short term appointment, it would've been perfect.

I believe the learning from that would be to appoint someone like Allardyce until the end of the season only, regardless of the outcome. If he keeps us up, then get that young manager in, so he can take over an established, experienced Premier League side. Rather than taking over now, with us deep in the bottom 3. If we go down, we get that younger manager with the intention of getting us back up, but at least with a full pre-season so they can have a proper go at it. That could be the start of the period of continuity.

Although I'm not sure if continuity exists in modern football. If you employ a younger manager and he does well, a 'bigger' rival just snatch them away anyway. Look at Pochettino when he was with Southampton, one good year and he was gone. Same thing happened with Macro Silva at Watford, a good few months and Everton were sniffing. Begs the question how long how long Hasenhuttl will stay with Southampton now, given he's the best performing manager in the league by some distance. Same could be said for Nuno at Wolves. They are surely on the radar of the likes of Man United, Arsenal, Bayern etc.

(16-12-2020, 16:32)BaggieSteve Wrote: Slick
I agree with much of what you say. I actually wasn't against Pulis' appointment and it did bring some much needed organisation to the team. You're absolutely right that he stayed too long and that would one of my concerns in appointing Allardyce - if he keeps us up, the Board/Owner will persist in his appointment into next season, as they did with Pulis even though it became obvious that he was taking us backwards. There will be consideration of the longer term.

I honestly think the issue at the Hawthorns is systemic and it wouldn't really matter who is the manager; it starts with the owner, who is not prepared to invest in the club but expects PL performances from a squad that is at Championship level, and a Board that is not willing to stand up to him or seemingly challenge his decisions. I just think short term thinking kills any club of our size - there is no continuity, it's all about survival in the PL (which is usually in vain) and an unwillingness to recognise that, for a club of our size, survival will always be a struggle. Sometimes I just think we have to break out of that thinking otherwise we just perpetuate the issue that we face - I accept that, in doing so, we may be relegated but I can't help but think that we face that outcome anyway, if not this season, then likely next since there will be no investment of any significance to markedly improve the squad. Of course, we may have been watching a PL quality squad all along and didn't realise it, and Allardyce will get them performing to that level but I don't think that is the case.

You're right that our history - and that of clubs of similar size - tells us that if we have players or managers of genuine ability, then we are at the mercy of them being lured away by clubs bigger than our own. It's always been the case - Cunningham, Robson, Moses, Atkinson etc (I'm sure there are plenty more of that era that others on here could name) and it's the reality right now for us and others like us. I don't think that should prevent us from being ambitious in our recruitment, otherwise we'll be appointing the Allardyces, Pulis', Pardews, Hughes', Bruces etc of this world until they're all dead - even then, we'd probably appoint one of them on a five year contract.

If it's Allardyce, then so be it, of course I'll still support the Baggies, they're my team...but it won't stop me thinking it's a sh*t appointment from an unambitious club.

(16-12-2020, 19:47)Dingle-Dingle Wrote: West Brom sporting and technical director Luke Dowling, said: "In Sam we have a man who has a proven Premier League pedigree with a track record of improving every club he has managed.

"We believe and, more importantly Sam believes, we have a group of players that have the quality needed to give the club its best chance of Premier League survival."

Allardyce was sacked by Everton in May 2018 after six months in charge. The side were 13th in the Premier League when he took over and finished the season in eighth but Allardyce was criticised for the side's style of play during his reign.

Before joining the Toffees, Allardyce had resigned as Crystal Palace manager after five months with the side.

Hopefull he will only last up to 6 months then.........

DD