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+--- Thread: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? (/showthread.php?tid=4601)
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - St Charles Owl - 21-11-2016
(21-11-2016, 22:22)0762 Wrote:(21-11-2016, 21:39)St Charles Owl Wrote: Freedom of speech is still in place and being used rightly by many of the protesters. My point was that not all Trump supporters are racist bigots like him, nor are they "bad people", and not all of the protesters actually voted nor are they all "good people"!!! Its never one or the other, the bulk of things fall in the middle!!
As regards wars, I have no clue what you are suggesting??? What war have your family fought in that could be compared to this situation?? Are you seriously considering that the rest of the world should declare war on the US because Trump won the election?? If you are referring to WW2, then we didn't got to war with Hitler because he was a fascist nor because he was elected, we went to war with him because he invaded other countries!! Just because Trump said he might not accept the decision or that he suggested civil disorder does not mean we have to resort to those horrific tactics, two wrongs don't make a right!!
People will continue to protest as is their right but come January 20th Trump will be sworn in as President and there is no peaceful method that will stop that from happening.
And four wasted years will ensue during a period where the USA needs a fascist RW authoritarian government like a 'hole in the head'. And by the way, I know the reasons behind the war on Hitler from 1939 onwards dohhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! I don't need a history lesson thanks very much and as for your wrong assumption to declare war on the USA? Ehhhhh????? How TF did you dream that up?? Mussolini, one of his Hitler's allies, was a fascist and so was General Franco - I won't bore you with further personal details/elaboration!! As Jim commented in a previous thread - Trump is a f#### imbecile, prob an actor and a dangerous man with fascist beliefs and tendencies. I'll worry when he marries up with the US armaments providers like the Rockefellers and wonder how the #### you ever ended up with another poor but dangerous American president who is full of shit and false promises. I hope Green Days dedicate a song to him with that specific title: False Promises!! The main point re fascism is that we've previously suffered from and many have fought against this poisonous philosophy in the past - AS HUMAN BEINGS WE JUST NEVER SEEM TO LEARN FROM PAST AND THE MORE WORRYING ASPECT IS THE FACT THAT THESE PEOPLE NEVER SEEM TO DISAPPEAR!!
Comparing Trump to Mussolini or Franco is tenuous at best!!! Franco took power by force using the military and Mussolini, who like Hitler was initially voted into power, then created a police state and dismantled democracy completely. Maybe you had relations in the Spanish Civil War, but we as a country were never in that and we went to war with Italy after they sided with Germany, which saw my Grandfather die in Rimini. We simply will not need to resort to violence or war to eventually remove him.
Trump may have fascist leanings, and certainly uses that rhetoric but to suggest he will start to implement policies similar to these three is way off the mark in my opinion!! If he tried to do what these three did then the US constitution and all within it would simply allow him to be removed from office!! Trump will not do 75% of what he said he would do and a lot of it would either be simply impossible or would take longer than a 4 year term to demolish. Lets also not remember that in the next two years a lot of senate and house seats will go to the polls, which if the democrats are serious about continuing the pressure on him they will put up some good candidates and take back control of one or other of the two chambers, that in itself will stop Trump destroying the country just like it was used by Republicans to stop Obama in his second term.
(21-11-2016, 22:41)hibeejim21 Wrote: So there is very little to no proof at all she actively supported or campaigned for remain. Theresa may didn't support remain,far from it. She behaved like the deceitful snake that she is.
Corbyn on the other hand for all his faults was honest about his euroscepticism but still campaigned to stay in for the greater benefit. There is no comparison with him and may.
I agree, as I said she supported it in private but not in public because of her looking to the future, and by that I mean her future, not ours!! I never said Corbyn didn't campaign, I said he was criticized like others for not being vociferous enough in his opposition to Brexit nor to the scurrilous claims being made by the leave campaign.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - 0762 - 21-11-2016
Well said Jim - absolutely spot on re the 'real persona' of Theresa May. The devious snake of a Home Secretary who moved up the ranks to grab the opportunity when it arose!! I'm not a Corbyn fan or a NLP supporter but, despite certain of Corbyn's faults, he is indeed a decent, scrupulous man compared with Cruella de Ville!
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - St Charles Owl - 21-11-2016
(21-11-2016, 22:53)0762 Wrote: Well said Jim - absolutely spot on re the 'real persona' of Theresa May. The devious snake of a Home Secretary who moved up the ranks to grab the opportunity when it arose!! I'm not a Corbyn fan or a NLP supporter but, despite certain of Corbyn's faults, he is indeed a decent, scrupulous man compared with Cruella de Ville!
Completely agree with that.
Actually he is a bit like Bernie Sanders in his outlook and being a thoroughly decent chap!! My fear though is like Bernie he will never win an election, whether by fair or foul methods!!! These guys just cannot invigorate enough people outside their core base to sweep them to power!! When is the likely next election in the UK anyway? I can't help thinking that Cameron should have called one immediately after the Brexit vote as this was a defeat for the official government stance.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - 0762 - 21-11-2016
Well there is some speculation that if the PM loses her Supreme Court appeal next month, she will then move towards calling an early General Election because of the Tory strength in the opinion polls, the view being that she could be in a stronger parliamentary position by the time of a poss Brexit debate!
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - hibeejim21 - 21-11-2016
(21-11-2016, 22:58)St Charles Owl Wrote:(21-11-2016, 22:53)0762 Wrote: Well said Jim - absolutely spot on re the 'real persona' of Theresa May. The devious snake of a Home Secretary who moved up the ranks to grab the opportunity when it arose!! I'm not a Corbyn fan or a NLP supporter but, despite certain of Corbyn's faults, he is indeed a decent, scrupulous man compared with Cruella de Ville!
Completely agree with that.
Actually he is a bit like Bernie Sanders in his outlook and being a thoroughly decent chap!! My fear though is like Bernie he will never win an election, whether by fair or foul methods!!! These guys just cannot invigorate enough people outside their core base to sweep them to power!! When is the likely next election in the UK anyway? I can't help thinking that Cameron should have called one immediately after the Brexit vote as this was a defeat for the official government stance.
Do you think sanders could have won it for the democrats SCO ? Not even with a more radical approach than clinton ? Might have countered trumps arguments with something a bit more sane.
(21-11-2016, 23:07)0762 Wrote: Well there is some speculation that if the PM loses her Supreme Court appeal next month, she will then move towards calling an early General Election because of the Tory strength in the opinion polls, the view being that she could be in a stronger parliamentary position by the time of a poss Brexit debate!
Fixed term now isn't it? Cant see it happening til 2020.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - St Charles Owl - 21-11-2016
(21-11-2016, 23:13)hibeejim21 Wrote:(21-11-2016, 22:58)St Charles Owl Wrote:(21-11-2016, 22:53)0762 Wrote: Well said Jim - absolutely spot on re the 'real persona' of Theresa May. The devious snake of a Home Secretary who moved up the ranks to grab the opportunity when it arose!! I'm not a Corbyn fan or a NLP supporter but, despite certain of Corbyn's faults, he is indeed a decent, scrupulous man compared with Cruella de Ville!
Completely agree with that.
Actually he is a bit like Bernie Sanders in his outlook and being a thoroughly decent chap!! My fear though is like Bernie he will never win an election, whether by fair or foul methods!!! These guys just cannot invigorate enough people outside their core base to sweep them to power!! When is the likely next election in the UK anyway? I can't help thinking that Cameron should have called one immediately after the Brexit vote as this was a defeat for the official government stance.
Do you think sanders could have won it for the democrats SCO ? Not even with a more radical approach than clinton ? Might have countered trumps arguments with something a bit more sane.
I do think he would have beaten Trump, would have been close maybe but most of the independents and even the moderate republicans would ahve voted for him. He is not that left wing, but he is anti-establishment and some of the things he was saying are the same as what Trump has said with regards to political reform and curbing lobbyists. Trump would have struggled to trash him and he didn't have the baggage that Hillary came with which "offset" the crap Trump was saying.
Problem is due to the "establishment" in the US he was never going to win the Democratic nomination due to the rules they have with regards to their voting system and that what stopped him from winning, not his popularity.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - 0762 - 22-11-2016
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/alec-baldwin-hits-back-after-trumps-criticism/ar-AAkzSJT?li=AAdeCd7&ocid=spartandhp
Here's the latest affronted Trump reaction after Alec Baldwin's recent satirical sketches in Saturday Night Live that covered Trump's election shenanigans/extreme behaviour. The more Americans who watch this satire, the better! Look at Baldwin's reply to Trump and talk about putting an unscrupulous, seedy politician in his place with an element of humour and satire. The man made himself a target and you 'reap what you sow'!!! George Bush jnr became a similar target but this is different in the premature way that Donald Trump has already been targeted by lotsa critics and that includes me and sorry to say it Saint Charles Owl - I despair at the appeasing manner in which you seem to view this president, even though you never voted for him (thank god for that!) and some of the dismissive comments and comparisons re past fascism and 'slightly different historical scenarios' to the current USA one - the extreme methodology/politicising is the same!!!!! The threat may indeed be different but it is still there and many people world wide, incl many anti Trump Americans, will view that threat the same way. I hope you're right re the various 'legislative safety valves' that will hopefully curtail Trump's incursions into contentious political issues that he should not be getting involved in anyway. However, I assure you I will be one of the first 'critics' to tell you that you 'got it wrong' after this president elect settles in and starts to try and 'make his mark' as another poor American president with very little credibility or political clout attached to him whatsoever and it goes 'tits up'.
Re Bernie Sangster's presidential chances, I thought you got it right in your thread #73 with good reasons why he just wasn't reputable enough with no 'wow factor'! Then you changed your opinion in thread #76! I listened to a good number of political analysts who covered the involvement of Bernie Sangster and I hardly heard any one of these people differ from the view that you took in your thread #73 with their various reasons why he was never gonna succeed.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - St Charles Owl - 22-11-2016
Winning the Presidential election over here requires two stages. The first is to win the Primary, and therefore your party's nomination, the second is to win the Presidential election. I think my words were a bit mixed up but to clarify, here is what I think of Bernie and those things. The Democratic election was skewed against him in favor of Hillary, he was never going to win the nomination due to the Super Pac vote going Hiillary's way before the primaries even began. He knew this but stayed in the race to keep her honest. This is now something the DNC is looking into. Secondly though and therefore ignoring the first point, had he won that nomination, I do believe he would have beaten Trump in the Presidential election. The upshot is that while he was a worthy candidate he was never going to win the DNC nomination.
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - 0762 - 22-11-2016
So should Sanders be nurtured and prepared for the next Democratic push with their solid reputable presidential candidate in place or should the party just start afresh? There must surely be some strong candidates coming through in the Democratic Party although unfortunately one big factor is that 'dollops of money' is a pre-requisite for a presidential campaign - it's a pity that this electioneering finance cannot be restricted as a statutory requirement for any US election TBF!
RE: Trump v Clinton arrives at a decisive moment? - St Charles Owl - 22-11-2016
I think he is too old to stand again. He will be 79 by the time of the next election. Both he and Trump suggested they would look into campaign and election funding due to the ridiculous cost of the whole thing, let's see if Trump follows through on that. Can't say I am that well up on their likely candidates but it definitely won't be a Clinton next time around!!!