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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 29-11-2017
(29-11-2017, 19:33)hibeejim21 Wrote:(29-11-2017, 19:05)spireitematt Wrote: Could cost more than £50 billion for the divorce bill and there's no guarantee we will be offered a trade deal. EU think its simple as having a hard border between N Ireland and Ireland, I suggest they look at a Map because its not simple. The border between Ireland and N Ireland is very very complicated.
Also the EU aren't happy with us and are making sly comments.
Could be even more,considering all the legal cases that will follow.
The border issue is entirely down to the UK, remember 'take back control of our borders' ?. Its the UKs responsibility 100%. Let me be clear here - the only reason its very,very complicated is because of brexit and the tories being deeply in hock to the terrorist loving DUP, otherwise they could leave UK/ NI in the customs union. Problem over.
And with paisley Jr and adams delivering threats already its hard not to feel uneasy.
I didn't understand the 'take back control of our borders' because we've always been in control of our own borders. Also if people look at the immigration figures properly it would show that more Non-EU migrants come to the UK than EU migrants/citizens. I think immigration is partly the fault of the EU with the freedom of movement but the consecutive Governments we've had in power need to take the main responsibility. Also India have said if we have a free trade deal with them they would like freedom of movement in return including priority for certain jobs.
It's complicated geographically and also it could infringe on the Good Friday agreement which the EU apparently take credit for, it was nothing to do with them.
Also what I don't understand is the EU want £50 billion (maybe more) to move talks on to a trade deal. Well you don't pay to negotiate with another party to move negotiations forward and there's not even a guarantee that we will get a trade deal off the EU. In someway it feels like the EU are blackmailing the UK and trying to teach us a lesson and show the other member states this is what will happen if you try to leave. Also the way the Tories have handled the whole of this has been a disaster and there is no real plan.
What the EU should have done first is negotiate a trade deal first and then sort out the divorce bill and the commitments that we have to honour such as the MEPs pensions and the budget that we signed up to etc. If they had sorted out the trade deal first it would have given businesses at least some comfort.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 29-11-2017
I've never heard the EU take credit for the good friday agreement - can you supply some evidence pls ?
"Also what I don't understand is the EU want £50 billion (maybe more) to move talks on to a trade deal."
The UK agreed to the structure of the talks and timetable with the EU. So ask them. That timetable involves dealing with citizenship,ireland and our financial obligations first.
In someway it feels like the EU are blackmailing the UK and trying to teach us a lesson and show the other member states this is what will happen if you try to leave
Its a political and economic union. They are not going to give us a deal comparable with EU membership no matter how the daily xxxx mail spin it. Otherwise whats the point of being a member ? Thats the point remember ?What the EU should have done first is negotiate a trade deal first and then sort out the divorce bill
Why? We are leaving the EU not the other way around. The terms of article 50 mean we have to sort all this shite out and davis agreed to those terms,and rightly so. Just because barmier and co aren't bending over backwards to make it easy is neither here nor there.
Remember how certain tories told us this would be the easiest thing in the world ?
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 29-11-2017
The 'easiest thing in the world'! lol
It still amazes me how many naive twits in England 'fell for that one' and many other 'porkies' to land our 'disunited Kingdom' in this horrible mess. The nightmare combo of brexit, and the arrival of a US President/ersehole named Trump, is something I still can't 'get my head around' after all these months that have passed since it 'came to pass'!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 30-11-2017
(29-11-2017, 22:40)hibeejim21 Wrote: I've never heard the EU take credit for the good friday agreement - can you supply some evidence pls ?
"Also what I don't understand is the EU want £50 billion (maybe more) to move talks on to a trade deal."
The UK agreed to the structure of the talks and timetable with the EU. So ask them. That timetable involves dealing with citizenship,ireland and our financial obligations first.
In someway it feels like the EU are blackmailing the UK and trying to teach us a lesson and show the other member states this is what will happen if you try to leave
What the EU should have done first is negotiate a trade deal first and then sort out the divorce bill
Why? We are leaving the EU not the other way around. The terms of article 50 mean we have to sort all this shite out and davis agreed to those terms,and rightly so. Just because barmier and co aren't bending over backwards to make it easy is neither here nor there.
Remember how certain tories told us this would be the easiest thing in the world ?
Something I read on twitter about them taking credit for it could have been fake news.
I understand we agreed a timetable when article 50 was triggered but you don't pay the money upfront without getting something in return. If you buy or invest money in something you want a return for your money. The EU if they wanted could just take the money and then shut us out.
I know its a political/economical union but they are saying if you don't pay the money (ransom) then they refuse to go into trade negotiations. We have to pay our obligations but I think there going about it the wrong way.
No one expects them to bend over backwards but they and the UK should leave on good terms and still be friends.
It was never going to be an easy task to leave the EU. The Tories live in cloud cuckoo land.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 30-11-2017
"I understand we agreed a timetable when article 50 was triggered but you don't pay the money upfront without getting something in return"
Well the tories should have left it out their article 50 letter then. But think about it matt. Why would the UK cave on that ? Should be our strongest hand. We are a large net contributor.... but....
the UK also has a sizeable rebate, plus the net fall will be less than 10% of Europe's GDP growth. If the UK did not pay what it owes, it is a problem for europe, but survivable. For the UK on the other hand no deal means financial meltdown. The clock is ticking and time is not on our side.
"No one expects them to bend over backwards but they and the UK should leave on good terms and still be friends. "
I do agree, but to a large degree the tories and the brexiters have pissed the EU off so much it has hardened their attitudes completely. Like davis saying at the start that there is no legal obligation for any EU claim,or someone telling the EU they can "go whistle" for their money,or by playing to the nationalist mobs. The tories haven't entered this in the spirit of friendship,and they have upset a lot of people as a result.
Plus as you point out the tories are xxxx clueless whilst the EU has been 100% prepared for some time. Read the link below - it shows you how out their depth the government is on this. Its like an episode from xxxx dads army.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/britain-s-brexit-chaos-leaves-eu-friends-and-foes-bemused
"Davis committed his own Brexit blunder the day Article 50 was triggered in March, according to EU and British officials, when he placed a call to Timo Soini, Finland’s foreign minister and a critic of the EU. Having been told he was speaking to Soini, Davis announced down the phone in enthusiastic terms that Brexit had begun, and that he needed the Finn’s support to secure a good deal from the EU.
Only when he heard the voice at the other end of the line did Davis realize he was in fact speaking to Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator."
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 30-11-2017
This sums up the talks perfectly.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 30-11-2017
"you don't deserve to live...your a waste of skin"
As much as Blair was massively compromised he was better than this pile of filth. Utter scum.
I meant that as Malcolm tucker was based on a certain Scottish spin doctor.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 30-11-2017
(30-11-2017, 19:56)hibeejim21 Wrote: "you don't deserve to live...your a waste of skin"
As much as Blair was massively compromised he was better than this pile of filth. Utter scum.
I meant that as Malcolm tucker was based on a certain Scottish spin doctor.
I thought Jamie and Malcolm were great together.
Stewart Pearson the blue sky thinker.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 01-12-2017
Brilliant programme. Thanks for posting that matt,brightened up a pish morning at work.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 01-12-2017
(01-12-2017, 12:06)hibeejim21 Wrote: Brilliant programme. Thanks for posting that matt,brightened up a pish morning at work.
It's one of my favourite tv series, got the whole boxset plus the In the Loop film.