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RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 17-10-2017
(17-10-2017, 19:43)spireitematt Wrote:(17-10-2017, 18:46)hibeejim21 Wrote: Where is this nonsense that it is the EU that is holding back negotiations coming from ? The tories can't agree on anything regarding brexit.
When we signed article 50 we agreed to the EU conditions - settle our bill,secure the border issue in ireland and guarentee the rights of EU citizens who live in the UK.
Not one of those conditions has been met. Don't forget that May also triggered an unnecessary court case by trying to bypass Parliament with Article 50. She didn't need to do that at all. She also called a general election which delayed talks further.
Going by the Finnish official close to the talks verdict today, its clear its the UK that is dragging its feet and delaying talks because IT DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO.
Something for the hard of thinking brexiteers to mull over whilst they digest the article below.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-490-billion-pounds-poorer-ons-figures-uk-brexit-talks-position-revision-gdp-a8002871.html
The £490 billions pound poorer has nothing to do with Brexit its because the Tories have been incompetent with the economy and they've got there sums wrong. Since they've been in power in the last 7 years they've borrowed £870 billion more than the whole of Labour have borrowed in there whole time in power. Austerity hasn't worked but they still seem to plough on with this ideology. Also foreign investors are put off with investing in the country as Brexit is up in the air and there seems to be no real direction the same would happen if Scotland went independent.
What the EU want is they want the money upfront before more negotiations and trade negotiations begin, If we give the EU £100 billion before talks they could take the money and run and not give us any deal. Reason why the Tories can't agree on anything relating to Brexit is because there split. Half want to leave while the other half want to stay and are dragging there feet.
What should have happen is the Tories should have got on with Brexit but done it cross party, cut there holidays short to sort this out and then at the end of the 2 year leaving period they should have then called a General Election in 2019 instead of calling a General Election this year because calling a General Election has wasted time and its made the Tories and Britain's hand in negotiations weaker.
You're missing the point. The UKs financial position is a lot weaker than has been made out,it makes brexit all the more stupid and unaffordable. But its interesting how the OECD can be half a trillion out on the nations finances but we have to 100% believe all the figures thrown against scottish independence.
And again you're just plain missing the point. THE TORIES AGREED TO THE TIMETABLE AND STRUCTURE OF THE EU POSITION POST ARTICLE 50. The reason they haven't complied is because they have nothing else to negotiate with.
The problem is that we have nobody with the slightest experience of international trade negotiations and we are up against the guys who do this for the biggest trading block in the world and they're playing hard ball because we can't say what we will do to settle our debts or what we even want going forward.
The tories aren't interested in whats best for the UK,they are going to turn us even more into a low wage,tax haven economy on the back of brexit. They can't make it cross party because that would affect their ability to make their friends rich as possible from this.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 17-10-2017
(17-10-2017, 22:15)hibeejim21 Wrote:(17-10-2017, 19:43)spireitematt Wrote:(17-10-2017, 18:46)hibeejim21 Wrote: Where is this nonsense that it is the EU that is holding back negotiations coming from ? The tories can't agree on anything regarding brexit.
When we signed article 50 we agreed to the EU conditions - settle our bill,secure the border issue in ireland and guarentee the rights of EU citizens who live in the UK.
Not one of those conditions has been met. Don't forget that May also triggered an unnecessary court case by trying to bypass Parliament with Article 50. She didn't need to do that at all. She also called a general election which delayed talks further.
Going by the Finnish official close to the talks verdict today, its clear its the UK that is dragging its feet and delaying talks because IT DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO.
Something for the hard of thinking brexiteers to mull over whilst they digest the article below.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-490-billion-pounds-poorer-ons-figures-uk-brexit-talks-position-revision-gdp-a8002871.html
The £490 billions pound poorer has nothing to do with Brexit its because the Tories have been incompetent with the economy and they've got there sums wrong. Since they've been in power in the last 7 years they've borrowed £870 billion more than the whole of Labour have borrowed in there whole time in power. Austerity hasn't worked but they still seem to plough on with this ideology. Also foreign investors are put off with investing in the country as Brexit is up in the air and there seems to be no real direction the same would happen if Scotland went independent.
What the EU want is they want the money upfront before more negotiations and trade negotiations begin, If we give the EU £100 billion before talks they could take the money and run and not give us any deal. Reason why the Tories can't agree on anything relating to Brexit is because there split. Half want to leave while the other half want to stay and are dragging there feet.
What should have happen is the Tories should have got on with Brexit but done it cross party, cut there holidays short to sort this out and then at the end of the 2 year leaving period they should have then called a General Election in 2019 instead of calling a General Election this year because calling a General Election has wasted time and its made the Tories and Britain's hand in negotiations weaker.
You're missing the point. The UKs financial position is a lot weaker than has been made out,it makes brexit all the more stupid and unaffordable. But its interesting how the OECD can be half a trillion out on the nations finances but we have to 100% believe all the figures thrown against scottish independence.
And again you're just plain missing the point. THE TORIES AGREED TO THE TIMETABLE AND STRUCTURE OF THE EU POSITION POST ARTICLE 50. The reason they haven't complied is because they have nothing else to negotiate with.
The problem is that we have nobody with the slightest experience of international trade negotiations and we are up against the guys who do this for the biggest trading block in the world and they're playing hard ball because we can't say what we will do to settle our debts or what we even want going forward.
The tories aren't interested in whats best for the UK,they are going to turn us even more into a low wage,tax haven economy on the back of brexit. They can't make it cross party because that would affect their ability to make their friends rich as possible from this.
Was the ONS who said we were half a trillion poorer not the OECD. Yes I understand that we are much weaker than what the Tories have been telling us because its all smoke and mirrors with the Tories and people believe it and lap it up when they tell the public we've never had it so good.
I do know that when we triggered Article 50 in March that we've got a 2 year negotiating period to get everything sorted and that when you trigger Article 50 you have to start negotiations right away and it didn't help matters that we had a General Election and Parliament had 12 weeks off for there holidays and it also doesn't help matter's that Davis and Barnier only meet once a month over the 2 years.
Both the EU and Brexit negotiating teams are hopeless and none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job they've just been on the gravy train. It's a complex issue and it has to be done properly and it's not.
We could have another referendum and if its leave we leave if its remain we remain. The only problem is if its remain a certain figure will come back into politics and the Eurosceptics will vote for a certain party which scares me.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 18-10-2017
'and none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job they've just been on the gravy train'.
Another quote 100% from farage sneaked in there. I'd quit while you are behind.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 18-10-2017
(18-10-2017, 08:06)hibeejim21 Wrote: 'and none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job they've just been on the gravy train'.
Another quote 100% from farage sneaked in there. I'd quit while you are behind.
Come on you've got to admit the EU is a gravy train. The most ridiculous thing I find is the parliament is in Brussels but they pile everything in boxes and vote in Strasbourg.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 18-10-2017
The quote by Farage re 'all Eurocrats have never had a proper job etc' is unsubstantiated rhetorical crap that Farage, and others, 'get away with' unchallenged far too often unless confronted by 'serious scrutineers' such as the LBC's presenter, James O'Brien, who has regularly 'ripped to bits' Farage's political deceptions/insinuations - great to watch him being 'knocked down to size' and being asked to provide the relevant information to back up these shit statements that are untrue anyway.
Here's a wee sample of said 'scrutiny':-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Rq7avG234
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 19-10-2017
(18-10-2017, 21:42)spireitematt Wrote:(18-10-2017, 08:06)hibeejim21 Wrote: 'and none of them have done a business deal and majority of them have never had a proper job they've just been on the gravy train'.
Another quote 100% from farage sneaked in there. I'd quit while you are behind.
Come on you've got to admit the EU is a gravy train. The most ridiculous thing I find is the parliament is in Brussels but they pile everything in boxes and vote in Strasbourg.
If you ever do an album you can call it "brexit's greatest hits".
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - spireitematt - 19-10-2017
Why are you so bothered about Brexit if you are so sure Scotland is going to go for independence and be allowed to join the EU. Unless you are not that confident that Scotland will go for independence? or not confident an independent Scotland will be allowed to join the EU?
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 19-10-2017
I think the majority of people in the UK are bothered about brexit because IT IS SO GLARINGLY WRONG and it is frustrating to watch the continual 'shuffling about' by UK politicians who should not be representing this country TBF! One way or another, Scottish independence will take care of itself and that's already apparent with a noted increase in support for the SNP in Scotland. Sure, a hard brexit will prob be a catalyst to drive the Scottish govt towards an indyref 2, together with a marked change of public mood against the union, but the continuous effect of Tory driven austerity measures, and other divisive 'shit', is already having the desired effect where lots more people have 'wisened up' to the toerags and their shit political ideology AGAIN!!
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - 0762 - 19-10-2017
And Goldman Sachs main hub of operation confirmed to be moving from London to Frankfurt, post brexit! This is another business that can be added to the long list of big businesses, and others, that are preparing to 'jump ship' to the hub of Euro business ops, which will not be UK based any more.
RE: European Union Referendum - In or Out?? - hibeejim21 - 20-10-2017
(19-10-2017, 17:34)spireitematt Wrote: Why are you so bothered about Brexit if you are so sure Scotland is going to go for independence and be allowed to join the EU. Unless you are not that confident that Scotland will go for independence? or not confident an independent Scotland will be allowed to join the EU?
Do you live under a bridge or something ?