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+----- Thread: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread (/showthread.php?tid=6030)
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Ska'dForLife-WBA - 10-12-2017
The problem in a nutshell: our squad seems divided into players who want to play for us but don't have the quality to deliver at this level (McClean, Robson-Kanu, arguably Nyom, maybe even Hegazi), and players who have the quality but for whatever reason are shirking their responsibilities (Chadli, Evans, Rondon, Phillips). The workhorses have become cart-horses, and the drivers of the team have turned into passengers.
The problem for Pardew here is going to be 90% man-management. Barring some wholesale changes of personnel in the January window, this is what he's got to work with from now till May, and they need an almighty rocket up the arse.
Not pressing the panic button yet, but time is not on our side.
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Salopbaggie - 10-12-2017
(10-12-2017, 06:40)Ska\dForLife-WBA Wrote: The problem in a nutshell: our squad seems divided into players who want to play for us but don't have the quality to deliver at this level (McClean, Robson-Kanu, arguably Nyom, maybe even Hegazi), and players who have the quality but for whatever reason are shirking their responsibilities (Chadli, Evans, Rondon, Phillips). The workhorses have become cart-horses, and the drivers of the team have turned into passengers.
The problem for Pardew here is going to be 90% man-management. Barring some wholesale changes of personnel in the January window, this is what he's got to work with from now till May, and they need an almighty rocket up the arse.
Not pressing the panic button yet, but time is not on our side.
I do agree with your summation in parts Ska'd, other parts I feel are a little harsh. Hegazi, I think does have the ability to play at a decent level and never shirks from getting his head in there, maybe his decision making can be a little suspect occasionally, but on the whole a snip at his asking price. Rondon is another I think, whom I think it is a little unfair to criticise. I don't think anyone would doubt his work rate and we do have to remember, he is a striker and not a midfielder or a defender. I am sure if you were to ask Evans to play as a centre forward, we would be saying he is not good enough, so why do we criticise Rondon when most of the game he is either in the box defending or having to stay just short of the halfway line waiting for the hoof. He certainly does not get the service to do his job as a striker, when 90% of the time he only sees the ball if he either goes and gets it himself or has to deal with a 60 yard lump up field with just him and 3 or 4 defenders. Phillips, I think does earn his wage as well, "when he is fit". I am surprised to see you think Evans is shirking, personally I think he shines through as a touch of class. I still think the biggest loss to the team is Brunt, look back at the results, not only from this year but in the past, think of the way we plummeted down the table when he suffered the injury which kept him out the Euro's. Chadli I do wonder about, full of promise when he arrived, then just injury after injury, strange though they only reoccur when it is time to play for us and not when he has to play for his national side. Spurs fans did warn us to be fair.
I totally agree the whole team needs the rocket up the proverbial though, in all honesty though, I really do think it is a confidence issue, I know that makes little sense to us mere mortals who look at their talent and think why do they not have any confidence, but it happens. I don't think it matters what your job is, if you have a bad run you question your own abilities and it does not matter what anyone else says, you have to believe it yourself.
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - talkSAFT - 10-12-2017
I've been particularly watching Rondon's movement since he came back into the side, because I thought I'd got him all wrong when the Chinese offered £30m.......but I was right and they were wrong! I'd take £5m for him now!
He reminds me of when our Sunday side had a few injuries, and one player's mate who came to watch volunteered to help us out. He was a 2nd Row Rugby player and we played him upfront. To his credit he ran around and put himself about, but made the wrong runs for balls out of defence, and balls to his feet would bounce off his shins. He naturally got his head to balls into the box, but his direction obviously lacked any experienced aim. We gave him MoM for his efforts although he had never played before and it showed.
He's had his chance, and he's just nowhere near Premier standard. (He's not alone).
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - tidy - 10-12-2017
(10-12-2017, 13:11)talkSAFT Wrote: I've been particularly watching Rondon's movement since he came back into the side, because I thought I'd got him all wrong when the Chinese offered £30m.......but I was right and they were wrong! I'd take £5m for him now!
He reminds me of when our Sunday side had a few injuries, and one player's mate who came to watch volunteered to help us out. He was a 2nd Row Rugby player and we played him upfront. To his credit he ran around and put himself about, but made the wrong runs for balls out of defence, and balls to his feet would bounce off his shins. He naturally got his head to balls into the box, but his direction obviously lacked any experienced aim. We gave him MoM for his efforts although he had never played before and it showed.
He's had his chance, and he's just nowhere near Premier standard. (He's not alone).
Rondon has had more than enough time. Can't fault his effort but he is nowhere near prolific enough. We need goals and we need them sooner rather than later.
Problem we've got now is that Jan is not a good time to be looking for good strikers. Perhaps a sneaky bid for that young lad Leeds have up front....
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Salopbaggie - 10-12-2017
(10-12-2017, 14:20)tidy Wrote:(10-12-2017, 13:11)talkSAFT Wrote: I've been particularly watching Rondon's movement since he came back into the side, because I thought I'd got him all wrong when the Chinese offered £30m.......but I was right and they were wrong! I'd take £5m for him now!
He reminds me of when our Sunday side had a few injuries, and one player's mate who came to watch volunteered to help us out. He was a 2nd Row Rugby player and we played him upfront. To his credit he ran around and put himself about, but made the wrong runs for balls out of defence, and balls to his feet would bounce off his shins. He naturally got his head to balls into the box, but his direction obviously lacked any experienced aim. We gave him MoM for his efforts although he had never played before and it showed.
He's had his chance, and he's just nowhere near Premier standard. (He's not alone).
Rondon has had more than enough time. Can't fault his effort but he is nowhere near prolific enough. We need goals and we need them sooner rather than later.
Problem we've got now is that Jan is not a good time to be looking for good strikers. Perhaps a sneaky bid for that young lad Leeds have up front....
I am still not convinced you can judge a striker purely on if they are scoring goals, if a painter has not got any paint, they can't paint your wall, that does not mean they are not a good painter.
If we look at our stats and compare them with Man City;
Man City: Passes: 731.47 average per game: Accuracy 89%: 113 shots on target: 46 goals - WBA: Passes: 330.63 per game: Accuracy 73%: 45 shots on target: 12 goals
Aguero has a goal to game rate of .705, Rondon .1875, on the surface a "no brainer", however if you faction in the pass rate, made by the team, City made 221.23% more passes than we did and if you multiply the differential in pass rate (221.23%) to the goals scored by the two main strikers Aguero still comes in at .705, but Rondon's rate comes up to .415
There are of course many factors not included in this down and dirty calculation, such as the success/accuracy rate of those passes which we also lose out on and would make Rondon's figures look even better, especially when you look at where the vast majority of those passes took place, for us the vast majority were in our own half, where Man City the vast majority were in the second 2/3rds of the pitch.
I am not really trying to prove anything by this, just pointing out if Rondon has not got the ball within 20 yards of the opposition goal, he is unlikely to score.
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - 4evaabaggie - 10-12-2017
Salop, a very fair post that shows you can not condemn many of our strikers that have apparently failed and been off loaded over the last five or six years. Our attacking football has not been great, our passing and incisive balls do not make it easy for front men. A good striker does not become bad just because he's in an Albion shirt ...... a soldier with no bullets is no use on the front line, put Lewis Hamilton in a Ford Focus against Vettel in a GP car only one result ......
We have issues built up over years 're lack of confidence, close quarter passing, finding players in the same colour shirts, pace, creativity, it will take time to repair, time we may not have, but don't be judge, jury and executioner on players not given the tools to do their jobs.
I do fear for this season ...... we could be bottom by Christmas ..... we are already three games behind tenth place .....
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - talkSAFT - 10-12-2017
The point I was trying to make clear, by reference to this big daft Rugby lock-forward, was that Rondon doesn't even appear to have the football skills, nor the football know-how, of anyone who has played any football in their schooldays or youth. I wasn't even writing about his goalscoring record, (mainly because it's hardly his fault that we've crossed the halfway line so rarely this season).
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Baggiebob(BBB) - 10-12-2017
Though Rondon is the subject, its the same for Rodriguez, as he too hasn't had those chances around the penalty area, and he's a prolific scorer when given the chance which have been far and few.
Confidence is the key.
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Beefy 1965 - 10-12-2017
Haven't won for 14 games Ten of them include this little lot
So where is our next win coming from ?
If you can't beat one of: .................
Stoke (h)
Brighton (a)
West Ham (h)
Watford (h)
Leics (a)
Saints (a)
Huddersfield (a)
Newcastle (h)
Palace (h)
Swansea (a)
Another thought ...... in 4 games time we are halfway through the season, we have just 2 wins
The remaining 4 games .
Man Utd , Liverpool, Stoke and Everton
RE: Swansea vs WBA - Match Thread - Baggiebob(BBB) - 10-12-2017
Another thought ...... says Beefy, in 4 games time we are halfway through the season, we have just 2 wins
The remaining 4 games .
Man Utd , Liverpool, Stoke and Everton.
So the possibility is possibility 2pts - with a hope of 3pts - however I can only wish, Beefy.
