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+----- Thread: PROTEST PROPOSED (/showthread.php?tid=7858)
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Dancingwilldoit - 09-12-2018
The win yesterday seems to have taken the wind out of the sails a bit. Wont be going to the game and wont be protesting myself, honestly cant see what they hope to achieve.
Do they think DA is just going to gift them the club and walk away? There are much better ways to make your voices heard . How many people do they think there are waiting in the wings to take us on with the required wonga.
Past protest attempts have been so poorly attended they have just looked foolish and then drifted away. The problem with Bobs members is that they just assume that everybody agrees with there opinions.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Devongone - 10-12-2018
The protest didn't originate with Bob's.
Its most foolish aspect is its timing at the Basford game at which no one expects a crowd. But it's intended as a low-key start. The problem is protest simply cannot focus on the club when the man at which is aimed is never there. They have to use that small beginning to head down a much more targeted trail.
Picketing his casinos might be a start, many gamblers are interested in all sports. Turning people away from his clubs, providing literature to show how his ownership (financed by their losses at the table) is destroying a club beloved by many people ....... might begin to make him take notice. But I'm afraid DA is a very stubborn man and only something much nastier or much more alluring would make him change course.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - SaltergateBorn - 10-12-2018
I don`t think that even doing that would have any meaningful impact.
I`m not sure whether DA has any other casinos, or whether Sheffield is the only one. Either way, it doesn`t really matter. A protest like that would only have any real impact on him if he had substantial business interests in Chesterfield that could be hit. Let`s be realistic, though; outside of the town, who really gives a toss about the fortunes of CFC and what`s going on there? I`d suggest that most Sheffielders don`t give a monkey`s and that there are some places – a certain town just along the A619, for example – where they`re probably revelling in our current plight and would be delighted to see it get worse.
And even if they did manage to damage DA financially, how would he react? By meekly accepting defeat, selling the club at a loss and then walking quietly off into the sunset? I suspect not. The ace in the hole for him is that he owns the Proact lock, stock and barrel and, as Dancing as already pointed out, he could probably still earn a few quid from it even if CFC folded completely.
As I`ve said before, people need to think very carefully about what the endgame is likely to be.
As it happens, I can`t go on Saturday due to family commitments - which is a shame, because I enjoy Cup games – but if I was I certainly wouldn`t be joining any protest unless I was reasonably confident of where it would end; and I`m not at all confident about how and where this one would end.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Devongone - 10-12-2018
If I were up there I would join the protest because they are on the right side, but I agree it is difficult to see how any protest can be made to work. Knowing all DA's enterprises ought to be a first step, because unless you know your target, hitting it is pretty difficult isn't it?
Very few men want to look really really bad in public. DA may be one, in which case there is very little you can do. It's no good telling the Prince of Darkness he's evil, he'll take it for a compliment. IF DA does have a weakness, and you'll only find it by exploring it, then you have to exploit it. It certainly isn't any good doing things that make you feel good, but which actually make no difference. And whatever you do at the club is likely to hurt the club and even the team you actually profess to love.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Dancingwilldoit - 12-12-2018
So Mr Carson has now said DA will walk away if there's any trouble down at t'mill Saturday. He even states that the club employees wont be paid for December.
You really have to doff your cap to these 2 cretins, they both dig CFC into a bloody big hole then as soon as anybody says anything against them they threaten to throw the shovel away ????
He also states neither of them will be there on Saturday but he has heard that some Mansfield and Forest fans will be there just to cause trouble. Well I suppose they will Mr Carson if you are paying them as its alleged you have paid hired thugs before.
https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/sport/football/chesterfield-fc/chesterfield-director-there-s-no-guarantee-it-s-going-to-be-a-peaceful-protest-if-dave-allen-walks-away-from-the-club-it-s-gone-1-9488610
The one good thing to come out of the interview is that Mr Dave" nicer than nice" Allen might accept an offer of £6 million for the club. Come on guys lets get the begging bowls out.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Devongone - 12-12-2018
Why didn't they just let what would have probably have been a very small scale protest be whatever it would be ....... to test the waters? Who would have noticed a protest in a Chesterfield v Basford game - it's not El Classico is it?
There'd been rumours Mansfield and Notts fans would "support" Basford anyway, but really how many can be bothered? They've got their own concerns and Christmas is coming. Two crazed and badly-motivated "fans" could cause chaos, it wouldn't need even a group, so why publicise it, unless of course you think you're likely to come out of it smelling slightly more like the roses than the manure. And why tell people you won't be there when everyone knew that was part of the data.
Much as I'm sure Carson and Allen get stuff badly wrong, I think we might just be under-estimating them to think this is the crass act of stupidity it appears. They know as much as we all know that Dave Allen isn't simply going to walk away. There's spiteful and there's your own nose. They've got a motive.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - SaltergateBorn - 12-12-2018
All very sad – and quite concerning, to be honest. I did say that I thought things could and would get a lot nastier, but I certainly didn`t think it would happen quite as quickly as it has.
This is always the potential danger with `peaceful and moderate` protests; they can so easily be hijacked by groups of less peaceful and moderate people with their own agenda. Personally, I`ve no idea whether there`s any truth in the suggestion that Mansfield and Forest yobbos might turn up looking to cause trouble, but it would be a classic case if they did.
I haven`t seen what was in these texts that apparently passed between AC and the protest group leader either so, again, I`ve no idea whether or to what extent they involved threats. It would be interesting to read them in full and without redaction. I have to say I certainly don`t see AC`s statement about the possibility of DA just walking away as being an implied threat necessarily; I`d personally put it more under the heading of `stating the bleedin` obvious`. Sometimes the bleedin` obvious does need to be stated, however. He has it totally within his power to do that and, as I`ve already said on this thread, think about what the endgame might be before you start any sort of protest movement.
It`s obvious from the summary of the accounts just released (I suspect that the timing of the release may not have been entirely coincidental) that it`s only DA`s injections of capital that have been keeping the club afloat for some time; capital on which neither he nor his company have been paid any interest, if we are to believe what the summarised accounts apparently say. I don`t imply in any way shape or form, Dancing, that this means that DA is `nicer than nice`; I`ve never met him so shouldn`t really comment on his character. However, i would say that I met quite a few successful businessmen in the course of my career and I`m desperately trying to remember a single one of them that I could in any way describe as `nice`. I can`t.
I certainly don`t think he`s a saint, but I don`t think he`s evil either; he`s a hard-nosed businessman looking after what he regards as his best interests. Let`s remember also that a lot of the club`s financial problems have arisen from the debt incurred in building the Proact. Without his capital we admittedly wouldn`t have that debt but also wouldn`t have the stadium that we`re playing in, that is the envy of a lot of clubs much bigger than we are. We`d still be playing in a ramschackle old stadium that was falling down around our ears.
A time for serious reflection by all concerned, I think; if it`s not already too late for that.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Dancingwilldoit - 12-12-2018
It makes you wonder Dev, it would probably have just passed by without anybody even knowing much about it. Now everybody will be expecting trouble and it will only take one or two idiots will rise to the bait and make poor Mr Allen and Carson look like the victims of a very public mugging.
The reasoning behind the protest was clear. The reason for the protest and what they expected to achieve was unclear. The comments in the article will certainly have made some people think and will have definitely inflamed the situation.
The only way fans will ever get rid of Ash and Cash is to pull together support from outside the club and the area and start fundraising then try and attract new money into the club. I would have thought somewhere between £1 and £1.5 mill would be reasonably easy to raise locally through supporters (genuine ones not keyboard warriors) and businesses. The local council loaned £1mill a few years back maybe they would do it again, Tomlinsons wanted to buy shares but had 2 fingers from Mr Nicey and am sure with other sponsors we could get close to £3mill in pledges etc. That's where people should be targeting their efforts and it would be far more beneficial than a not so quiet protest.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - SaltergateBorn - 12-12-2018
Involving the Press in any dispute rarely achieves anything positive, in my experience; they`ll usually distort the facts immediately just to make a better story. Having read the link to the DT website that you set up though, Dancing, I very much get the impression that it was the guy organising the protest who made it public by going to the DT along with his complaints about threats being involved; not the club.
RE: PROTEST PROPOSED - Devongone - 12-12-2018
Unless you can fill the streets of Paris with potentially violent protestors you need aims and definite targets, and you're right, ours aren't clear. Allen out? Sounds good, but what will he do about the millions we do owe him? Sell us now Dave? Sounds like a start, but to a shallow-pocketed Reg Brealey, or a bunch of property developers, or foreign owners who only want to filter their dirty money into the UK?
Mr Allen must have known what our potential crowd and income were when he helped us build the Proact. He must have known we'd have to reach the Championship to have an income capable of financing proper re-payments ....... and if we got that high then our expenditure and his own expenditure would also inevitably rise! So he and we did this together. What was his aim? As dear old Bluepooch used to say, we don't know his end game. But it's worse than that, it's very difficult to get to the point of his opening gambit, when the result of it seems to have tied us to him and him to us.
I'm sure OUR Saturday protestors will be genuine lovers of Chesterfield FC. But if protest targets the club, they risk hurting what they want to save, and if they home in on Mr Allen he has the power to react in any way he sees fit. As SpireMatt says that puts us between a rock and a hard place, BUT bizarrely between a different rock and another hard place entirely there's Messers Allen and Carson.
It's all a bit reminiscent of the Irish backstop. (There's about 260 crossings, Ireland could never afford to set-up and man border posts, neither would the EU, and we only did so when we were stopping IRA terrorists or freedom fighters ..... so we can't agree because it's impossible for what we are talking about even to exist, but everyone knows there's no point in changing any proposals in order to prevent it happening!)
Maybe we should be asking to meet Dave Allen under a peaceful banner of START MAKING SENSE! (Because this situation gives me a headache!)
And having just read SGB's recent post, as a former Press Officer, if you are clever you can use the media ........ but the price is they might also end up using you. Sometimes you run the story, but stories can find a way to run you.